{"conversationCode":"024-136","tapeNumber":24,"conversationNumber":136,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-024-136","startDateTime":"1972-05-16T03:42:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-05-16T03:49:00.000Z","startDate":"15-May-1972","startTime":"11:42 PM","endDate":"15-May-1972","endTime":"11:49 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Waggonner, Joe D., Jr.; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On May 15, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Joe D. Waggonner, Jr., and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 11:42 pm to 11:49 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 024-136 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 24-136\n\nDate: May 15, 1972\nTime: 11:42 pm - 11:49 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nJohn D. Ehrlichman talked with the President.\n\n     Assault on George C. Wallace\n          -Charles W. Colson's report\n          -Arthur H. Bremer\n                -L. Patrick Gray, III’s evaluation\n                -Political affiliations\n                -Political leanings\n                      -Support for Wallace\n                             -Statements from family\n                -Material in apartment\n                      -Gray\n                -Statements\n                      -Plans for autobiography\n                -US attorneys\n                -Warrants\n                -Investigation\n                      -Secret Service\n                             -Withdrawal\n                             -Compared with Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]\n\nH. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman talked with the President at an unknown time.\n\n          -Dr. William M. Lukash's report\n               -Prognosis\n                     -Internal wound\n                     -Bullet\n                           -Removal\n                     -Surgery\n                     -Damage\n               -Surgery\n                     -Recovery\n\n     [Unintelligible]\n\n          -Lukash's report\n\n          -John B. Connally's statement\n          -The President's statement\n          -The President's possible visit\n          -The President's remarks in Blue Room\n                -Television coverage\n          -The President's possible visit\n                -Propriety\n                -Lukash's statement\n                     -The President's schedule\n                           -Camp David\n          -Visits\n                -Hubert H. Humphrey\n                -George S. McGovern\n                -Humphrey","filename":["024-136.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:13:55","tapeEnd":"03:20:52","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Waggonner, Joe D., Jr.","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"024-135","nextCode":"024-137","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, John Ehrlichman, and H.R. Haldeman discussed the investigation into Arthur Bremer, the assailant of George Wallace, including Bremer's political leanings and the evidence recovered from his apartment, with Ehrlichman recommending the FBI take full control of the investigation. They also reviewed the critical medical condition of George Wallace following surgery for a gunshot wound, noting the bullet's trajectory and the guarded prognosis, and discussed the propriety of presidential visits and public statements regarding the incident.","topics":["Assault on George Wallace","Arthur Bremer investigation","George Wallace medical condition","FBI investigation","Secret Service","Political affiliations","Medical prognosis","Presidential statements"],"generatedAt":"2026-10-28T16:58:43.609Z"},"topicSlugs":["assault-on-george-wallace","arthur-bremer-investigation","george-wallace-medical-condition","fbi-investigation","secret-service","political-affiliations","medical-prognosis","presidential-statements"],"audioDurationSec":418,"audioFiles":[{"file":"024-136.mp3","bytes":16730693,"durationSec":418.17,"bitrate":320075,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-10-28T16:45:30.200Z","audioSource":"National Archives Catalog (open data, RN-WHT)","audioSourceUrls":["https://catalog.archives.gov/medialz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-wht/17412458/6852475/37-wht-conversation-024-136-pa.mp3"],"catalogNaId":646314588,"originalFilename":["024a.mp3","024c.mp3"],"transcript":[{"start":0,"end":2,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Thank you, sir."},{"start":2,"end":7,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I just talked to Colson. He gave me the latest stuff. Did you hear anything else?"},{"start":7,"end":11,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Well, I don't know what he gave you, the"},{"start":11,"end":13,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"The FBI report."},{"start":13,"end":18,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Gray tells me that this guy is very, very strange."},{"start":18,"end":19,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":19,"end":20,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"He, but he"},{"start":20,"end":25,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I see. Colson seemed to get the impression from the news people, the Democrats, he was a Young Democrat."},{"start":25,"end":29,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"He was that, and he was also pro-Wallace."},{"start":29,"end":31,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"He got pro-Wallace material?"},{"start":31,"end":35,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Pro, but Colson. But why would a pro-Wallace guy shoot Wallace?"},{"start":35,"end":41,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Well, his his parents and his brother both say he's pro-Wallace, strongly pro-Wallace."},{"start":41,"end":48,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"There's a whole There's a whole load of stuff coming here from his apartment in Milwaukee to the custody of the Bureau."},{"start":48,"end":52,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"And they don't know what's in it yet, but"},{"start":52,"end":55,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Maybe it's pro-Wallace. But"},{"start":55,"end":64,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"He's Yeah. And he, when they were fingerprinting him, he was giving them a whole lot of shit, where he said he came from nowhere, and he's going nowhere, and"},{"start":64,"end":69,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"he asked the Bureau agent how many of them were going to help him tell his biography."},{"start":69,"end":73,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"And that kind of stuff. Very, very weird."},{"start":73,"end":74,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":74,"end":84,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"But we're routing a lot of U.S. attorneys out of bed, and we're we're shaking things up, and they're getting warrants for his car and his apartment and that kind of thing."},{"start":84,"end":85,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Good."},{"start":85,"end":90,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"So the thing's moving along, I think, just about as fast as anybody can make it."},{"start":90,"end":96,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"I would like to take the Secret Service totally out of the Milwaukee picture."},{"start":96,"end":97,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Totally. Take an order"},{"start":97,"end":99,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Totally, and"},{"start":99,"end":102,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"and give the Bureau a freer hand, that"},{"start":102,"end":104,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Bureau's better. Have them do it. Okay."},{"start":104,"end":110,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"Bob Bob is here, and he's got a medical report from surgery, and I'll hand him the phone."},{"start":110,"end":111,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Okay. Good."},{"start":111,"end":116,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"I'm just about to go in the Cabinet Room, and then go home."},{"start":116,"end":117,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Fine."},{"start":117,"end":128,"speaker":"Ehrlichman","text":"All right, sir."},{"start":128,"end":129,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Hello, Mr. President."},{"start":129,"end":131,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Hi, Bob. What's the [unintelligible]?"},{"start":131,"end":136,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Connally called Dr. Lukash about a half an hour ago,"},{"start":136,"end":137,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":137,"end":143,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and Lukash got ahold of the, uh, chief surgeon."},{"start":143,"end":145,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Chief of what?"},{"start":145,"end":147,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Chief of surgery at the hospital."},{"start":147,"end":148,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":148,"end":155,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"And, uh, their prognosis is extremely guarded."},{"start":155,"end":156,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Oh, my."},{"start":156,"end":162,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Uh, he has massive internal injuries."},{"start":162,"end":163,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Did the bullet enter the stomach?"},{"start":163,"end":166,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"The bullet entered the upper right quadrant"},{"start":166,"end":167,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Oh, that's bad."},{"start":167,"end":170,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"went, uh, and they have not removed the bullet."},{"start":170,"end":171,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":171,"end":176,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Uh, they don't dare. It has perforated his, uh, bowel,"},{"start":176,"end":177,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":177,"end":182,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and, uh, that is what they're doing the surgery on now."},{"start":182,"end":184,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Right."},{"start":184,"end":193,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"The bullet penetrated that, then penetrated through to the, uh, spinal column. It has bruised the spinal cord,"},{"start":193,"end":194,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yes."},{"start":194,"end":200,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and it's now lodged somewhere in or near the spinal column."},{"start":200,"end":203,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Did they operate to try to take it out?"},{"start":203,"end":209,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"No, they don't, they will not do any surgery in that area until later. They don't dare touch that now."},{"start":209,"end":210,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"That's bad. That's bad."},{"start":210,"end":217,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"They are just trying to repair the damage to the stomach and bowel and everything in that, in the intestinal area."},{"start":217,"end":220,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Did, did any of the other bullets hit him in vital parts?"},{"start":220,"end":223,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"No, all the other bullets were superficial."},{"start":223,"end":224,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"One one bullet hit him?"},{"start":224,"end":228,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"One bullet did the, did all this, this bad work."},{"start":228,"end":229,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":229,"end":233,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Uh, the, uh, he's had massive hemorrhage,"},{"start":233,"end":234,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":234,"end":238,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and, as I say, they, uh, they consider him in critical condition."},{"start":238,"end":239,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"And guarded."},{"start":239,"end":243,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Uh, Lukash has a call into the surgeon again in another hour,"},{"start":243,"end":244,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":244,"end":248,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"when they hope to be about through with the initial surgery."},{"start":248,"end":253,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I think we should go ahead with Connally's statement, don't you?"},{"start":253,"end":254,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":254,"end":256,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Go ahead, let him release it."},{"start":256,"end":262,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"I think, uh, with, uh, Wallace's doctor having published,"},{"start":262,"end":263,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Right."},{"start":263,"end":266,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"his statement that Wallace had come through and was in recovery."},{"start":266,"end":267,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":267,"end":274,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Connally's statement is completely in order. I told him we would call him back only if there was a problem,"},{"start":274,"end":276,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"No, I don't think you should."},{"start":276,"end":281,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and so his, uh, his office is releasing it from here, and he's released it from there."},{"start":281,"end":283,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"No, that's fine."},{"start":283,"end":292,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Well, the coverage The television carried your, uh, your visit to him on, uh, sheet film a couple minutes ago."},{"start":292,"end":294,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":294,"end":300,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"And, uh, almost all channels they've carried your, uh, your remarks to the press"},{"start":300,"end":302,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Blue Room, yeah."},{"start":302,"end":305,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and they just carried the, uh, the Wallace remarks."},{"start":305,"end":307,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":307,"end":308,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"It comes across very well."},{"start":308,"end":314,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I think the point, though, is you're, uh, going to the hospital will have to be off now. I don't think it's proper."},{"start":314,"end":317,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"No, going to the hospital would be impossible for us, although"},{"start":317,"end":318,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Don't try it."},{"start":318,"end":319,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"I think that point"},{"start":319,"end":320,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Make that point."},{"start":320,"end":321,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"I made that point."},{"start":321,"end":324,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"The doctors feel that that should not be bothered,"},{"start":324,"end":325,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Shouldn't be bothered."},{"start":325,"end":327,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"except with his family, and they'd like to get the, uh,"},{"start":327,"end":329,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"That's right."},{"start":329,"end":330,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"press out of there, and get the crowd away,"},{"start":330,"end":331,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":331,"end":334,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"and let him get into the business of fighting for his life."},{"start":334,"end":335,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Right, right."},{"start":335,"end":341,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Which is what it is, and they shouldn't build the recovery hope too, too much."},{"start":341,"end":343,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"No, no, absolutely."},{"start":343,"end":349,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"I think the two things together play that out just the right, just the right tone."},{"start":349,"end":350,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":350,"end":351,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":351,"end":353,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":353,"end":354,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Is Ziegler still around?"},{"start":354,"end":356,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"He'll be off in just a minute."},{"start":356,"end":357,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":357,"end":359,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"He's been right with, uh,"},{"start":359,"end":360,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":360,"end":362,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Yeah, do well."},{"start":362,"end":370,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"And, uh, he might just, uh, tell them what the situation was."},{"start":370,"end":373,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Fine."},{"start":373,"end":377,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Does he feel that we should do anything in terms of, uh,"},{"start":377,"end":378,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"visiting?"},{"start":378,"end":379,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":379,"end":382,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Oh, no. He doesn't think there's any point in trying to get in on that."},{"start":382,"end":384,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Good."},{"start":384,"end":385,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"No, he did."},{"start":385,"end":389,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I don't think so. I, I very much doubt if it's good."},{"start":389,"end":395,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Well, and, and, uh, and we've done it already, so"},{"start":395,"end":396,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":396,"end":404,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"I was, I would very much doubt if there would be any point in doing that. You know, you can't see the fellow, and he couldn't see you."},{"start":404,"end":407,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I would, I would very much doubt if there'd be any point."},{"start":407,"end":411,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"No, you can't help him, and you can't see him."},{"start":411,"end":414,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Okay, see you at 11 o'clock tomorrow, right?"},{"start":414,"end":418,"speaker":"Haldeman","text":"Yes, sir."}],"transcriptCreatedAt":"2026-10-28T12:51:16.346Z","transcriptModel":"google/gemini-3.8-flash","transcriptSource":"audio-llm","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/024-136.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/024-136","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/024/conversation-024-136","catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/646314588","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}