{"conversationCode":"025-043","tapeNumber":25,"conversationNumber":43,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-025-043","startDateTime":"1972-06-11T19:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-06-11T19:22:00.000Z","startDate":"11-Jun-1972","startTime":"3:16 PM","endDate":"11-Jun-1972","endTime":"3:22 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Krol, John Cardinal;","description":"On June 11, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John Cardinal Krol talked on the telephone from 3:16 pm to 3:22 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 025-043 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 25-43\n\nDate: June 11, 1972\nTime: 3:16-3:22 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Cardinal John Krol.\n\n[See Conversations No. 341-34 and 341-35]\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n[Previous archivists categorized this section as unintelligible. It has been rereviewed and\nreleased 10/27/2017.]\n\f[Unintelligible]\n[025-043-w001]\n[Duration: 5m 42s]\n\n     Purpose of call\n          -Trip\n          -Henry Louis (“Lou”) Gehrig\n\n     Leaders of the church\n          -Philadelphia\n          -Cardinal John Krol\n                -Calling him King versus Cardinal\n          -Diocese\n          -Poland\n                -President's trip\n                -People\n                      -Reaction to the President's trip\n\n     Charles W. Colson\n\n     President’s travel plans\n          -California\n          -Camp David\n          -Possible visit with Cardinal John Krol\n\n     Leonid I. Brezhnev\n          -Summer vacation\n          -Russia\n\n     President’s vacation plans\n          -Reading\n\n*****************************************************************","filename":["025-043.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:08:22","tapeEnd":"02:14:03","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Krol, John Cardinal"],"prevCode":"025-042","nextCode":"025-044","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon spoke with Cardinal John Krol by telephone to thank him for his public support, which Nixon believed had a significant positive impact. They discussed the enthusiastic reception Krol received for his remarks, particularly concerning Nixon's recent trip to Poland and the public's reaction to the Polish government's handling of crowds. Nixon also mentioned his upcoming travel plans and a potential visit with Krol, contrasting his own work schedule with Leonid Brezhnev's upcoming vacation.","topics":["Presidential support","Cardinal Krol","Poland trip","Public reaction","Media influence","Nixon's travel plans","Brezhnev's vacation"],"generatedAt":"2026-10-27T14:56:01.996Z"},"topicSlugs":["presidential-support","cardinal-krol","poland-trip","public-reaction","media-influence","nixons-travel-plans","brezhnevs-vacation"],"audioDurationSec":370,"audioFiles":[{"file":"025-043.mp3","bytes":8886856,"durationSec":370.22,"bitrate":192034,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:27.840Z","transcript":[{"start":0,"end":4,"speaker":"Operator","text":"[unintelligible] [crosstalk] Mr. President. Cardinal Krol, sir."},{"start":4,"end":7,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Cardinal Krol. Dick Nixon here."},{"start":7,"end":10,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Oh, yes, Mr. President. It's so good of you to call."},{"start":10,"end":13,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, listen, after all the things you said, I thought you were talking about Lou Gehrig."},{"start":13,"end":20,"speaker":"Krol","text":"No, I wasn't. I was not doing that. No, I made the people [laughter] in Philadelphia sit through about ten minutes of my, uh,"},{"start":20,"end":21,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Did you really?"},{"start":21,"end":28,"speaker":"Krol","text":"personal feelings and reflections on, uh, that event. And they were just, oh, extremely, uh, delighted with it."},{"start":28,"end":31,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, as I said, I've got the summary here, and I'm very, very grateful,"},{"start":31,"end":32,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Well, the point—"},{"start":32,"end":41,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"and, of course, your personal support always means a great deal, but this comes at an important time because a leader of the Church like you, speaking out as you have,"},{"start":41,"end":42,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Yeah."},{"start":42,"end":47,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"has—has a massive effect throughout this country, and that's—that's what we need."},{"start":47,"end":52,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Well, now, just for your encouragement, let me tell you this. When I spoke to them, I had a captive audience."},{"start":52,"end":54,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Right."},{"start":54,"end":64,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And, uh, it's customary, uh, in the Church that when I speak, uh, people listen, and they accept, uh, what I have to say, even if they don't agree with it. [laughter]"},{"start":64,"end":68,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yes, sir. You're the Cardinal. That's better than being King, you know."},{"start":68,"end":72,"speaker":"Krol","text":"[laughter] But you see, our paper came out with it the next day."},{"start":72,"end":73,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":73,"end":81,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And our paper has 80,000 subscribers, but is, uh—we estimate, uh, reaches about 400,000 people."},{"start":81,"end":82,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Wonderful."},{"start":82,"end":94,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And that was yesterday. And that—yesterday and today, my mail, phone calls, and everything else has been nothing but enthusiastic commendation—"},{"start":94,"end":94,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Great."},{"start":94,"end":100,"speaker":"Krol","text":"—for, uh, speaking up. And a lot of them have said it's high time that we have someone speak up, uh, the truth."},{"start":100,"end":102,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Is that right?"},{"start":102,"end":107,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Uh-huh. I haven't got a single negative call, letter, or comment."},{"start":107,"end":108,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, let me—"},{"start":108,"end":113,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And so people—I think, Mr. President, they're, uh—the majority are just fed up—"},{"start":113,"end":113,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":113,"end":121,"speaker":"Krol","text":"—with that minority that monopolizes the press, and the, uh, media. And, uh, they're fed up with them."},{"start":121,"end":135,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, the fact is, uh, as you know, uh, uh, that this—this whole thing—Poland was a very touching thing. As I said in a press conference the other day, Cardinal, the Polish government didn't want the crowds."},{"start":135,"end":137,"speaker":"Krol","text":"They were scared to death of them."},{"start":137,"end":143,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah. The Polish people made it. And it was deeply moving to us, and—"},{"start":143,"end":145,"speaker":"Krol","text":"It came across on TV, too."},{"start":145,"end":146,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Did it really?"},{"start":146,"end":155,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Oh, yes, yes. It was—it was something really, uh, very, uh—well, it made your heart jump, you know, to see the way people were reacting."},{"start":155,"end":156,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":156,"end":166,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And, uh, Chuck Colson said something about, uh, somebody in Poland said you must be a, uh—partly Polish to be so good. I said to Chuck, [laughter] he's a lot better than the Poles are, politically."},{"start":166,"end":168,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"[laughter] Well—"},{"start":168,"end":172,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Because the Poles were always disorganized, you know, politically. And they ruin themselves."},{"start":172,"end":173,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":173,"end":182,"speaker":"Krol","text":"And, uh, what impressed me, uh, particularly about this trip is that, uh, you were prepared for it. And, uh—"},{"start":182,"end":183,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah."},{"start":183,"end":186,"speaker":"Krol","text":"—you moved effectively, firmly."},{"start":186,"end":197,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Right. Well, I—I—I hope you saw the joint session, because I tried there to point out that we don't have peace yet, and that we can't let down our guard, and we've got to—we've got to stand fast."},{"start":197,"end":207,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Yes. In other words, you have, uh, started, uh—as you said in your inauguration, opened a door, but you have not arrived at the final, uh, conclusion yet."},{"start":207,"end":212,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"That's right, and they understand that. Well, let me say, Cardinal, I know your—your flock must be enormously proud of you,"},{"start":212,"end":212,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Well—"},{"start":212,"end":215,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"and I want you to know how grateful I am."},{"start":215,"end":222,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Well, thank you, Mr. President. It's so thoughtful of you to take time out of your busy schedule just to give me a ring, and I certainly do appreciate it."},{"start":222,"end":226,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, we'll see you one of these days soon. I'm going to be out in California, and—"},{"start":226,"end":227,"speaker":"Krol","text":"California, yeah."},{"start":227,"end":229,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"—then come on back to, uh, the—"},{"start":229,"end":230,"speaker":"Krol","text":"You take a rest."},{"start":230,"end":234,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"—here. And after I get back here, uh, we'll get up to Camp David, and get you up."},{"start":234,"end":235,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Oh, wonderful."},{"start":235,"end":236,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Good."},{"start":236,"end":237,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Wonderful. I look forward to that."},{"start":237,"end":243,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"You know, Brezhnev told me, Cardinal, he said, \"I work hard, and now I'm taking off the next two months.\""},{"start":243,"end":244,"speaker":"Krol","text":"[laughter]"},{"start":244,"end":248,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I said, \"Well, you must not have a press corps.\" He laughed. He thought it was funny."},{"start":248,"end":249,"speaker":"Krol","text":"[laughter]"},{"start":249,"end":253,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"He said, \"No,\" but he said, \"nobody works in Russia in July and August.\" Can you imagine that?"},{"start":253,"end":255,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Is that right?"},{"start":255,"end":260,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"And I said, \"Well, you've got an easier life than we have, because we work, uh, mostly twelve months.\""},{"start":260,"end":266,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Yeah. Well, the climate makes some difference too, I guess, in terms of the vacation, doesn't it?"},{"start":266,"end":271,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Well, they go down to the Black Sea, you know, and soak in the sun. But anyway, maybe I'll get a couple of days."},{"start":271,"end":272,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Yeah."},{"start":272,"end":280,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"I'm out in—going to be in California. I've got a lot of reading and work to do, but at least in a different spot. And then we'll see you when we get back. Okay?"},{"start":280,"end":282,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Good. God bless you, Mr. President."},{"start":282,"end":284,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"God bless you, Cardinal. Thank you again."},{"start":284,"end":285,"speaker":"Krol","text":"Goodbye, sir."},{"start":285,"end":287,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Bye."}],"transcriptCreatedAt":"2026-10-27T14:37:26.461Z","transcriptModel":"google/gemini-3.8-flash","transcriptSource":"audio-llm","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/025-043.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/025-043","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/025/conversation-025-043","catalogNaId":417193709,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417193709","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}