{"conversationCode":"028-021","tapeNumber":28,"conversationNumber":21,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-028-021","startDateTime":"1972-08-01T02:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-08-01T02:25:00.000Z","startDate":"31-Jul-1972","startTime":"10:16 PM","endDate":"31-Jul-1972","endTime":"10:25 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On July 31, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 10:16 pm to 10:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 028-021 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 28-21\n\nDate: July 31, 1972\nTime: 10:16 pm - 10:25 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.\n\n[See Conversation No. 757-19]\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 6m 45s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n    Thomas F. Eagleton removal\n              -Lawrence F. O'Brien, Jr.\n                   -Gathering of information\n\n    [George S. McGovern]\n        -[Allegation of impropriety]\n        -Letter from Fort Wayne\n               -Use\n               -Grover Cleveland\n                    -Reaction\n\n    Reaction to O'Brien as Vice President\n\n    Indiana material\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 1m 12s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n*****************************************************************","filename":["028-021.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"028-020","nextCode":"028-022","transcript":[{"start":3.59,"end":22.72,"text":"Go gung-ho on that out front."},{"start":22.92,"end":24.1,"text":"Go gung-ho, as I said."},{"start":24.12,"end":27.93,"text":"Get every goddamn thing there is on that son of a bitch."},{"start":27.95,"end":28.05,"text":"Okay."},{"start":34.79,"end":40.32,"text":"too early to use the letter from Fort Wayne, isn't it?"},{"start":40.34,"end":42.28,"text":"I don't think we ought to."},{"start":42.3,"end":42.95,"text":"No."},{"start":42.97,"end":44.17,"text":"I don't think we ought to use it."},{"start":44.19,"end":46.67,"text":"I don't think we want to use it at all."},{"start":47.37,"end":53.42,"text":"That's my view because of the Cleveland episode, you know."},{"start":53.82,"end":58.99,"text":"You just never know how that sort of thing is going to react."},{"start":59.81,"end":63.75,"text":"But anyway, only I would say it's the last that worries him, you know what I mean?"},{"start":64.33,"end":66.77,"text":"He might use it in that way."},{"start":66.79,"end":68.55,"text":"Only then, but not now."},{"start":68.57,"end":72.39,"text":"In any event, we certainly can worry him about O'Brien, can't we?"},{"start":72.67,"end":74.06,"text":"Oh, yeah."},{"start":74.23,"end":75.56,"text":"I think there you take it head on."},{"start":75.58,"end":77.36,"text":"You don't pull any punches at all."},{"start":77.38,"end":78.2,"text":"That's right."},{"start":78.22,"end":85.47,"text":"You just leap out and say the guy's again proven his incredibly bad judgment."},{"start":85.49,"end":85.95,"text":"Sure."},{"start":85.97,"end":87.17,"text":"And you don't hit it on O'Brien."},{"start":87.23,"end":89.57,"text":"You hit it on McGovern's bad judgment again."},{"start":90.03,"end":91.31,"text":"Exactly."},{"start":91.33,"end":92.81,"text":"Now he's got a guy."},{"start":93.47,"end":101.26,"text":"is totally unqualified for elective office, which he recognizes himself because he's never run for elective office."},{"start":101.34,"end":103.66,"text":"Secondly, and then he's doing all this stuff."},{"start":107.07,"end":113.44,"text":"Well, I'm sure we have that Indiana stuff in the bank, just like LeBron's stuff."},{"start":113.46,"end":113.7,"text":"Yep."},{"start":114.04,"end":115.28,"text":"Only you."},{"start":115.3,"end":116.58,"text":"It's all good."},{"start":116.6,"end":117.28,"text":"It's interesting."},{"start":126.81,"end":126.91,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman discussed strategies to exploit the political vulnerabilities of George McGovern following the controversy surrounding his running mate, Thomas Eagleton. They specifically strategized to attack McGovern’s judgment regarding the potential selection of Lawrence O'Brien, while opting to withhold a sensitive letter from Fort Wayne to avoid a public backlash similar to historical precedents. The President instructed Haldeman to aggressively pursue and catalog derogatory information on their political opponents to leverage as needed.","topics":["Thomas Eagleton","George McGovern","Lawrence O'Brien","Political strategy","Opposition research","1972 Presidential Election"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T03:31:19.728Z"},"topicSlugs":["thomas-eagleton","george-mcgovern","lawrence-obrien","political-strategy","opposition-research","1972-presidential-election"],"audioDurationSec":127,"audioFiles":[{"file":"028-021.mp3","bytes":3048016,"durationSec":126.88,"bitrate":192176,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:28.232Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:39.449Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/028-021.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/028-021","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/28/conversation-028-021","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}