Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 30 › Conversation 030-010

Nixon phone call with Colson on Soviet grain deal

Wednesday, September 20, 1972 · 8:03 PM–8:30 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation030-010 on Tape 30StartWednesday, September 20, 1972 at 8:03 PMEndWednesday, September 20, 1972 at 8:30 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 030-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss strategies to neutralize political controversies regarding the administration's Soviet grain deals and ongoing 1972 campaign developments. They agree to expedite an FBI report to clear any suspicions of scandal while emphasizing the economic benefits of grain sales to farmers. Additionally, they discuss the campaign performance of George McGovern, noting with satisfaction the negative confrontations he has faced during plant visits, particularly regarding his stance on amnesty and Vietnam policy.

Audio

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NARA Description

On September 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:03 pm to 8:30 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 030-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 30-10

Date: September 20, 1972
Time: 8:03 pm - 8:30 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

       Soviet grain deal profits
              -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew's statement
                      -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] investigation
                              -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                      -Congressional committees
              -Possible handling
                      -John D. Ehrlichman
                      -Investigation by the FBI
                      -Justice Department
                      -Richard G. Kleindienst
                              -Possible statement

       Farmers
             -Julie Nixon Eisenhower’s schedule
                     -North Dakota
                     -South Dakota
                     -Wheat sales
                              -Soviet Union
                              -The People's Republic of China [PRC]
                              -Japan
             -Earl L. Butz
                     -Statistics
             -Prices

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 48s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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      Campaign practices
            -George S. McGovern
                   -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                   -R. Sargent Shriver
Show the rest of the log (46 more lines)
                   -Plant visit
                           -Columbus, Ohio
                                  -Western Electric
                           -Amnesty
                                  -Prisoners in Vietnam
                                  -Grover [first name unknown]
                           -The President
                           -Bombing in Vietnam
                           -The President
                                  -Vietnam
                                  -McGovern
                   -CBS
                   -Plant visit
                           -Amnesty
                           -US prisoners of war [POWs]
                           -Vietnam
                                  -North Vietnam
                                  -World War II
                                          -Japan
                   -Detroit
                   -Shriver
                   -Detroit
                           -Busing

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 23m 10s    ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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       Grain sales
              -Ehrlichman
              -Wheat
                     -Soviet Union
                     -PRC
                     -Japan
              -Congressional committees
                     -Graham B. Purcell
                             -Robert Dale Price
                     -Hugh Scott
                             -McGovern
              -FBI investigation

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Mr. Colson?
Mr. Colson?
Hello?
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, did you survive the day?
I think we had a good day, sir.
I understand.
I guess you had quite a flap with Agnew and the FBI.
Oh, boy, that was a little bit of grief this morning, because I guess he just, well, I don't know what happened.
I think what happened is that he saw Cap out there, and Cap mentioned the fact that it had been discussed, and Agnew sort of thought, well, that's a good way to
make news, and he proceeded to make news.
The trouble is that, you know, at this very same time, the committees on the Hill are saying, well, there's nothing and no scandal involved here and nothing improper.
Well, just one more day, I think we'd have... Yeah, well, we've got to get off of it because it's just wrong to create an impression that anybody is guilty of deliberate wrongdoing here.
That's right, exactly.
What are we going to do about it, you know?
Well, my suggestion, I was going to talk to Erlichman tonight, and I didn't get an opportunity to, but my suggestion is... Well, wait till the morning, there's nothing to do tonight.
Well, is to get the FBI to go through there like gangbusters, get their answer out quick.
If somebody has done something wrong, fine.
If they haven't, let's say so.
I just think it's one, now that it's started.
Well, I'll get the just, and get clientese to make a quick statement.
Exactly.
Not the FBI, but the clientese should say the FBI indicates there was nothing of here, no, anyway, but anyway, it's one of those dances.
It's unfortunate because just as we talked yesterday, the big thing is not to make any issues.
I mean, let's keep track of it.
just on his ground.
I still think, though, that as far as the farmers are concerned, one of my daughters is going to be in North Dakota, Julie, in North Dakota and South Dakota tomorrow, and I said, just don't say a thing about it.
Just say you're so happy that we're selling wheat to Russia and wheat to China and wheat to Japan, and that means that it's a good year for the farmers.
Well, we've got butts pulling together all the tonnage and the dollars and the enormous opportunities.
And, of course, the price is up.
That's as far as the farmers are concerned.
I don't think it's... Yeah, point out the price.
Oh, no.
Right.
He had one hell of a bad day, Mr. President.
Today?
Yes, sir.
He got confronted in an assembly line.
What happened here?
Oh, God, it was three minutes of CBS tonight of the finest television commercial I have ever seen in my life.
We couldn't buy it if we tried.
Really?
Yes, sir.
He was walking through an assembly plant.
Why do they have him doing that, the stupid assholes?
Well, but every place he goes...
He's a candidate for president.
That's right.
And Shriver's getting the same treatment.
But what happened?
This is one aspect of our campaign operation that's working very effectively.
I noticed one of the wires tonight said that we were responsible for this.
They didn't say that on TV, but he went through the plant and as they stopped... What kind of a plant was it?
Let's see, the Formica plant in Columbus.
Oh, that was last night, I think.
But anyway, it doesn't make any difference what plant.
What happened?
Western Electric plant in Columbus, Ohio.
And an employee shouted at him who...
said why are you going to give amnesty to these traitors and McGovern stopped and started the debate with him and he said well there's several accounts on the wires they're all they're all different I guess he had several confrontations in the plant one of the best ones here he said this he said why are you giving amnesty to traitors and then he got very angry and apparently he stopped and he said
There is nothing I wouldn't do if I would get those prisoners out.
One day earlier, my governor said, Grover asked if that wasn't negotiating from weakness and would hurt U.S. prestige.
He said, I'm not trying to save face.
And then he said that Nixon's engaging in slow surrender.
Oh, Christ.
These people said, well, you're giving up the country, and you're surrendering, and let's bomb hell out of them.
And McGovern said, bomb hell out of people, why?
And the employee said, right, we should bomb hell out of a lot more of them and get our boys home.
And he said, well, listen, do you think that's going to get the prisoners out?
The employee, yes, I do, that's right.
Nixon wants to show them we have a power over here and we're not just a flunky second-rate country.
And the man went on and was interviewed and said Nixon was right in the way he was handling Vietnam, that McGovern was wrong, that it was a surrender, and, oh, God, he just cut the hell out of them.
And apparently it was quite a...
I've got four pages of wire service stories.
The press have picked it up and carried it very extensively.
Unfortunately, CBS was the only network that got it.
We checked this afternoon.
That's all right.
But that's damn good coverage.
Just so it's on that issue, that's what I wanted.
I want a little on that issue.
Here's a better account.
I'm just trying to sift these words out.
How come you want amnesty for traitors?
A man standing in the aisles as the candidate passed by shouted at McGovern, I'm not for traitors, McGovern snapped back and then stood for several minutes talking to the critic and a friend who were both wearing bracelets bearing the names of U.S. prisoners of war.
You can't get them out by surrendering, the two men said.
But I'm not talking about surrendering, McGovern said.
The two said that his plan to remove U.S. forces from Vietnam 90 days after he takes office amounted to surrender, and they've been freeing the prisoners by stepping up the bombing of North Vietnam.
It worked in World War II against Japan.
Nixon's been in office four years, and he hasn't gotten them out, McGovern said.
You say it's victory when Nixon pulls out, but when I pull out in 90 days, you say it's surrender.
That's right, they said.
They apparently really let him have it.
But he's crazy to be walking through these plants, and he's going to get it every place he goes.
He's got a little thing that he'll encounter in Detroit this week, and he's going to, because Shriver's been getting it everywhere.
Same thing, huh?
Yep, same thing.
In Detroit, he's going to run into a little bussing squabble.
He goes in there tomorrow night.
Well, okay.
We'll try to keep the grain thing from getting too much out of line.
I think we can handle that, Mr. President.
I'll talk to John, I think.
Give you our best ideas on it.
But I think we'll get rid of it in a hurry is the best thing.
And just not have our people talking.
Try and just talk about the fact that we're selling a hell of a lot of wheat to Russia, China, and Japan.
Well, that's what's coming out of the hill today, which is what's...
so damn bad about raising the issue because the stuff that now is beginning to come out of those committees is what a tremendous thing this is for the... That's really coming out of the committees, is it?
Sir?
That's really coming out of the committees.
Yes, there was a report today that... Well, here it is.
A subcommittee investigated administration handling a recent big grain sales to Russia will not make any scandal charges.
Well, it's a report Chairman Graham Purcell in Texas said today.
I mean, he's
What they're going to do is come out with a report and say that's it.
There wasn't anything wrong.
In effect, apparently Purcell's committee is going to say that they've looked at it.
I don't think Purcell wants to be on the side of being against the president, too.
He's got a hell of a fight with Price.
That's right.
Exactly right.
So that looks like it.
Ray Scott gave a marvelous speech on the floor, which carried heavily on the wires.
He said this is it.
take a demagogue who really wants to flap his wings and ride the current on this one.
All he has to do is tell the farmer, somebody made more than he did on the deal, Scott said.
He doesn't have to prove it because this is a political year, a year of non-proof.
And I'm not an expert on grain, but I'm an expert on garbage and hogwash.
Cut the hell out of McGovern.
Oh, boy.
And so I think the damn thing can go away.
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
We've just got to leave it alone and get the report out, get the FBI thing just to... Get it done.
Yeah, whatever the report is, get it out and be done with it.
Right, right.
The political debate.
Right, right.
Stick them on his issues.
Well, okay.
We'll see you tomorrow.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Yes, sir.

Also recorded on September 20, 1972

  • 030-009 7:46 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:46 pm and 8:03 pm.

Cite this conversation

Conversation 030-010, September 20, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/030-010 (accessed November 15, 2026).