{"conversationCode":"030-021","tapeNumber":30,"conversationNumber":21,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-030-021","startDateTime":"1972-09-22T00:04:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-22T00:15:00.000Z","startDate":"21-Sep-1972","startTime":"8:04 PM","endDate":"21-Sep-1972","endTime":"8:15 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On September 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:04 pm to 8:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 030-021 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 30-21\n\nDate: September 21, 1972\nTime: 8:04 pm - 8:15 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 2m 29s     ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n       Crosby S. Noyes\n             -Washington Star\n                    -Watergate\n                          -Daniel Ellsberg\n\n       George S. McGovern\n             -Ellsberg\n             -Watergate\n                    -Polls\n                    -Democratic chicanery\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 5m 20s     ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n*****************************************************************","filename":["030-021.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"030-020","nextCode":"030-022","transcript":[{"start":1.23,"end":1.93,"text":"Hello."},{"start":2.33,"end":13.3,"text":"Yes, sir, Mr. President."},{"start":13.32,"end":22.31,"text":"I enjoyed reading Crosby Noyes had a marvelous column tonight in the story in which he says the reason the Watergate column hasn't aroused any feeling is why should it?"},{"start":22.39,"end":27.22,"text":"The public didn't get very excited over Ellsberg, and what's the difference between that?"},{"start":28.36,"end":34.85,"text":"a little bit of political espionage on the one hand, and Ellsberg stealing government documents."},{"start":34.87,"end":42.48,"text":"This is one that we've been waiting to use this one, frankly, until we could get Josh the right spokesman on this."},{"start":42.5,"end":47.77,"text":"McGovern started really chirping away on the... Yeah, he ought to say something about Ellsberg."},{"start":47.83,"end":50.85,"text":"Just say, well, how come you encouraged Ellsberg to publish stolen documents?"},{"start":50.87,"end":51.85,"text":"What's the difference?"},{"start":52.51,"end":53.21,"text":"That's right."},{"start":53.23,"end":53.73,"text":"That's good."},{"start":54.71,"end":58.02,"text":"Actually, it's kind of interesting the way"},{"start":58.81,"end":61.69,"text":"McGovern has shut up on the Watergate, hasn't he?"},{"start":61.71,"end":63.11,"text":"He hasn't talked about that this week."},{"start":63.13,"end":64.11,"text":"I wonder why."},{"start":65.07,"end":66.43,"text":"Yeah, I wonder why, too."},{"start":67.36,"end":75.72,"text":"Maybe he's found that his polls may indicate it isn't making all that much impact on the folks."},{"start":75.74,"end":76.52,"text":"I'm sure that's one reason."},{"start":76.56,"end":83.45,"text":"Maybe he figured his people were up to a little bit of chicanery that goes in the back there."},{"start":83.67,"end":83.95,"text":"Right."},{"start":84.17,"end":87.95,"text":"No, I think basically it is that he found that it hasn't..."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss a Washington Star column by Crosby S. Noyes that draws a favorable comparison between the Watergate scandal and the Daniel Ellsberg case. They aim to shift the public narrative by challenging George McGovern to explain his support for Ellsberg’s theft of government documents in the context of his Watergate criticism. Nixon and Colson also speculate that McGovern’s recent silence on the Watergate affair stems from unfavorable polling data and potential concerns regarding Democratic political misconduct.","topics":["Watergate","Daniel Ellsberg","George McGovern","Crosby S. Noyes","Political messaging","Public opinion"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T03:43:13.425Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","daniel-ellsberg","george-mcgovern","crosby-s-noyes","political-messaging","public-opinion"],"audioDurationSec":101,"audioFiles":[{"file":"030-021.mp3","bytes":2424371,"durationSec":100.95,"bitrate":192130,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:28.233Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:39.807Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/030-021.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/030-021","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/30/conversation-030-021","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}