{"conversationCode":"031-041","tapeNumber":31,"conversationNumber":41,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-031-041","startDateTime":"1972-10-13T23:14:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-13T23:17:00.000Z","startDate":"13-Oct-1972","startTime":"7:14 PM","endDate":"13-Oct-1972","endTime":"7:17 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On October 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:14 pm to 7:17 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 031-041 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 31-41\n\nDate: October 13, 1972\nTime: 7:14 pm - 7:17 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Henry A Kissinger.\n\n        Kissinger's schedule\n            -Meeting with Robert S. McNamara\n\n        Vietnam negotiations\n            -Briefing of William P. Rogers\n                -Information in Marvin L. Kalb's broadcast\n                     -Possible settlement\n                          -Ceasefire\n                          -Nguyen Van Thieu’s approval\n                     -Possible leak\n                          -Rogers, William H. Sullivan\n                               -Kissinger’s view\n                               -The President’s view\n            -Kissinger's activities\n                -McNamara\n                -Thieu's role in possible settlement\n                     -Possible message from the President","filename":["031-041.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"031-040","nextCode":"031-042","transcript":[{"start":0.6,"end":2.67,"text":"Hello, Mr. President."},{"start":2.87,"end":3.73,"text":"How'd your day go?"},{"start":4.41,"end":7.2,"text":"Well, it's pretty... Did you see McNamara?"},{"start":7.66,"end":9.92,"text":"Yes, and he's getting some staff work done."},{"start":10.22,"end":10.74,"text":"Good, good."},{"start":10.76,"end":11,"text":"Right."},{"start":11.46,"end":16.19,"text":"Every bloody thing we told Ratas this morning is on Marvin Kalb this evening."},{"start":16.89,"end":17.82,"text":"I can't believe it."},{"start":17.84,"end":18.06,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":19.2,"end":19.74,"text":"Like what?"},{"start":19.76,"end":23.09,"text":"You mean like... Well, we've agreed on a standstill ceasefire."},{"start":24.4,"end":32.79,"text":"Which means, in effect, that each party controls its own area, and that in turn, so all that's left now is to get you's approval."},{"start":36.98,"end":39.82,"text":"You think Rogers or Sullivan?"},{"start":40.75,"end":41.67,"text":"I think Rogers."},{"start":43.39,"end":44.63,"text":"I couldn't believe he'd do it."},{"start":45.61,"end":50.32,"text":"Normally not, but I guess he's just determined not to be the guy that was left out this time."},{"start":52.12,"end":54.01,"text":"It doesn't make any difference, Mr. President."},{"start":54.07,"end":55.81,"text":"Cobb has been wrong so often, Henry."},{"start":55.97,"end":58.87,"text":"I mean, there's so much speculation that no one believes it anyway."},{"start":59.34,"end":60.42,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":60.5,"end":63.08,"text":"But you rather think this came from them, huh, Henry?"},{"start":63.1,"end":63.74,"text":"No question."},{"start":63.76,"end":64.5,"text":"It's too accurate."},{"start":66.44,"end":67.35,"text":"It makes no difference."},{"start":67.37,"end":70.73,"text":"So, Mr. President, there are six other stories kicking around."},{"start":73.64,"end":73.9,"text":"Wow."},{"start":74.4,"end":78.16,"text":"And I've got McNamara working on the economic..."},{"start":78.18,"end":81.61,"text":"If there's anything else you can think of in terms of..."},{"start":82.33,"end":84.33,"text":"getting too prepared for this."},{"start":84.41,"end":88.7,"text":"Why, let's think of it, you know, I— Well, we're working on a game plan tonight."},{"start":88.74,"end":89,"text":"Right."},{"start":89.16,"end":94.13,"text":"And anything you need me for, I mean, if a message needs to go in advance or anything, why, you know, I'm ready."},{"start":94.93,"end":95.93,"text":"Right, Mr. President."},{"start":96.37,"end":96.65,"text":"Right."},{"start":97.63,"end":98.96,"text":"In the meantime, you get some rest."},{"start":99.24,"end":99.6,"text":"Right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss concerns over a news leak regarding sensitive Vietnam peace negotiations, specifically a report by Marvin Kalb that accurately detailed a potential standstill ceasefire and the necessity of President Nguyen Van Thieu's approval. Both men suspect Secretary of State William P. Rogers or his aide William H. Sullivan of leaking the information to ensure their involvement in the process. The conversation concludes with Kissinger updating the President on his work with Robert McNamara and confirming his readiness to execute upcoming diplomatic communications.","topics":["Vietnam War","Peace negotiations","News leaks","William P. Rogers","Ceasefire","Nguyen Van Thieu","Henry Kissinger"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T03:49:47.648Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","peace-negotiations","news-leaks","william-p-rogers","ceasefire","nguyen-van-thieu","henry-kissinger"],"audioDurationSec":105,"audioFiles":[{"file":"031-041.mp3","bytes":2527816,"durationSec":105.25,"bitrate":192131,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:28.233Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/031-041.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/031-041","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/31/conversation-031-041","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}