{"conversationCode":"031-115","tapeNumber":31,"conversationNumber":115,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-031-115","startDateTime":"1972-10-18T13:03:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-18T13:07:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Oct-1972","startTime":"9:03 AM","endDate":"18-Oct-1972","endTime":"9:07 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;","description":"On October 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 9:03 am to 9:07 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 031-115 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 31-115\n\nDate: October 18, 1972\nTime: 9:03 am - 9:07 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n\n[See Conversation No. 369-9A]\n\n        Vietnam settlement\n            -Henry A. Kissinger’s message\n\n                                        (rev. Oct-06)\n\n             -Kissinger’s possible trip to Vientiane\n                  -The President’s view\n             -Possible trip to Hanoi\n             -Status\n             -Kissinger’s memorandum\n                  -The President’s view\n                  -Issues\n                  -Nguyen Van Thieu’s cooperation\n             -Military action by US\n                  -Saigon\n                  -The President’s view\n                  -Haig’s talk with Melvin R. Laird\n                  -Possible ceasefire\n                       -US bombing\n                            -Timing\n                  -South Vietnamese military action\n                       -Lt. Gen. Nguyen Van Minh\n                            -Haig’s view\n             -Kissinger’s possible action\n             -Timing\n                  -Forthcoming US presidential election\n                       -Possible consequences of failure for North Vietnamese\n             -South Vietnamese military position\n                  -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.\n                  -Use of air power\n                       -US air support","filename":["031-115.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haig, Alexander M., Jr."],"prevCode":"031-114","nextCode":"031-116","transcript":[{"start":1.9,"end":2.99,"text":"President General Hague."},{"start":3.01,"end":3.27,"text":"Hello."},{"start":5.83,"end":5.97,"text":"Hello."},{"start":6.11,"end":7.57,"text":"President."},{"start":7.59,"end":20.55,"text":"I wanted you to know that I, having read Henry's thing there, I have two, one, this idea of going to Benton is an utter loser."},{"start":20.57,"end":23.39,"text":"You just can't do that at all, under no circumstances."},{"start":24.28,"end":24.86,"text":"You see what I mean?"},{"start":25.76,"end":30.64,"text":"That's not quite like going to Hanoi, but that would build up the speculation beyond belief."},{"start":31.55,"end":35.54,"text":"If he's got to come back after he meets you, he's got to come back here."},{"start":37.7,"end":38.96,"text":"Have you told him that?"},{"start":38.98,"end":39.94,"text":"Well, no, I haven't."},{"start":39.98,"end":50.98,"text":"I've had about five messages during the night, some of which went on to the other side, which he told them it was impossible to go to Hanoi."},{"start":51.62,"end":60.11,"text":"There was a total agreement that there would be absolutely no reduction in the bombing, but he did."},{"start":60.97,"end":63.79,"text":"He didn't promise, no."},{"start":63.87,"end":65.19,"text":"He made this offer."},{"start":65.31,"end":68.67,"text":"There are two paragraphs that are fundamentally in disagreement."},{"start":68.69,"end":70.62,"text":"Well, the point is they're the only two that matter."},{"start":71.72,"end":78.84,"text":"But when he said, you know, in his memorandum now, everything is settled, everything went well, except for only two things."},{"start":78.92,"end":85.33,"text":"But what matters more than that question of the release of 40,000 saboteurs in the South?"},{"start":86.35,"end":88.59,"text":"And the other point, huh?"},{"start":88.61,"end":90.42,"text":"I understand that those were the two that mattered."},{"start":90.68,"end":103.73,"text":"That's right, but I think in the context of the replacements, he has a very good paragraph for us, and they're the ones that are hurt for the recent people in the South."},{"start":103.75,"end":103.88,"text":"Right."},{"start":103.89,"end":106.88,"text":"So he has this thing now with the..."},{"start":106.9,"end":107.62,"text":"They accepted it."},{"start":108,"end":108.44,"text":"That's right."},{"start":108.5,"end":117.75,"text":"If Q accepts it, accepts something that is acceptable to them, that we can get an okay, I think we've got a lot."},{"start":118.15,"end":119.51,"text":"Al, let me ask you this, Al."},{"start":120.1,"end":124.1,"text":"Are we really pounding the hell out of them around Saigon there?"},{"start":124.36,"end":126.14,"text":"I asked you that last night, and you said yes."},{"start":126.22,"end":132.27,"text":"But Jesus Christ, kick more in the ass and tell them to— I talked to Mr. Laird after I spoke to you last night."},{"start":132.29,"end":137.25,"text":"I got him in a restaurant and said that you should call me and get them off their bus."},{"start":137.53,"end":141.64,"text":"Because if you're going to have a ceasefire, this will help you agree to it if we pound them."},{"start":141.66,"end":143.1,"text":"And what did he say?"},{"start":143.12,"end":148.94,"text":"And I said to get these assets, and if you have to move a carrier down, to help on it to do it."},{"start":149.22,"end":149.34,"text":"Right."},{"start":149.93,"end":150.23,"text":"Right."},{"start":151.75,"end":155.12,"text":"I'll follow up on that with you, because now is the time to hit them."},{"start":155.16,"end":159.59,"text":"I mean, you know always before ceasefires, that's when you run your offensives."},{"start":159.61,"end":160.85,"text":"They are, and we've got to."},{"start":161.27,"end":164.57,"text":"Are the South Vietnamese getting off their butts a bit or not?"},{"start":164.61,"end":164.93,"text":"They are."},{"start":164.97,"end":170.18,"text":"They're moving very—every place is satisfactory, except where this goddamn men is."},{"start":170.74,"end":170.84,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":170.86,"end":174.09,"text":"Other places are taking back everything that they've lost."},{"start":174.11,"end":175.05,"text":"That's the stuff."},{"start":175.07,"end":175.45,"text":"That's the stuff."},{"start":177.05,"end":180.33,"text":"He's on the ground and it's you right now."},{"start":180.45,"end":181.18,"text":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"start":181.19,"end":181.58,"text":"All right."},{"start":182,"end":183.64,"text":"You keep me in constant touch, will you?"},{"start":183.72,"end":184.12,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":185.18,"end":185.3,"text":"Right."},{"start":185.32,"end":190.35,"text":"I'm just trying now to keep Henry from getting out on a limb here and then having to saw it off."},{"start":191.15,"end":191.87,"text":"Oh, exactly."},{"start":191.93,"end":196.09,"text":"Now, you know, I've hit him with about three cold towels in a row tonight."},{"start":196.44,"end":196.92,"text":"Right."},{"start":196.94,"end":197.3,"text":"That's right."},{"start":197.32,"end":201.22,"text":"And he's got it and has gone and conveyed these and stuck them to the other side."},{"start":201.98,"end":204.32,"text":"Good, good, good."},{"start":204.34,"end":206.35,"text":"So you two, I think you're what you had told Bob."},{"start":206.8,"end":207.34,"text":"reported."},{"start":207.36,"end":210.97,"text":"I mean, when you said, look, if a guy wants to settle, they'll settle."},{"start":211.13,"end":212.41,"text":"If they don't want to settle, they won't."},{"start":213.23,"end":216.53,"text":"So therefore, what we have to do is to put it to them as hard as we can."},{"start":216.71,"end":218.78,"text":"And if they don't settle, then we'll settle after the election."},{"start":219.04,"end":219.52,"text":"That's right."},{"start":220.18,"end":226.51,"text":"I also have this feeling, I think, your position after the election is stronger than before, our position is."},{"start":226.99,"end":227.29,"text":"Right."},{"start":227.49,"end":230.39,"text":"After the election, we have no restraints."},{"start":231.09,"end":231.47,"text":"You know it."},{"start":232.21,"end":232.47,"text":"Right."},{"start":232.5,"end":232.75,"text":"Agree?"},{"start":233.5,"end":234.9,"text":"Oh, I do."},{"start":234.92,"end":235.02,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":236.18,"end":242.21,"text":"But if they collapse on us—and they accepted this stuff yesterday, apparently."},{"start":244.35,"end":249.54,"text":"But I do think that they're really geared to this attack schedule in the South."},{"start":249.56,"end":251.98,"text":"Well, that's a question for the South Vietnamese."},{"start":252.62,"end":258.25,"text":"And now the South Vietnamese are going to have that for the next half a dozen years, and they'd better learn to deal with it now, don't they?"},{"start":258.27,"end":259.73,"text":"That's Rudy Abrams' point, isn't it?"},{"start":260.1,"end":264.38,"text":"How can we sit there all the time, and every time they attack, we bring in the Air Force?"},{"start":264.87,"end":265.83,"text":"God damn it."},{"start":265.91,"end":268.21,"text":"They don't have an Air Force tacking."},{"start":268.85,"end":272.52,"text":"If this thing jins out right, we've got to take it."},{"start":272.54,"end":272.98,"text":"Exactly."},{"start":273.72,"end":276.61,"text":"It seems to be in pretty good shape."},{"start":276.65,"end":278.21,"text":"Right."},{"start":278.23,"end":278.85,"text":"All right, Al."},{"start":278.87,"end":279.43,"text":"Just let me know."},{"start":279.63,"end":279.86,"text":"All right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Alexander Haig discuss the ongoing Vietnam peace negotiations led by Henry Kissinger, specifically emphasizing the need to maintain strong military pressure on North Vietnamese forces before a potential ceasefire. Nixon explicitly vetoes a proposed diplomatic trip to Vientiane, fearing the political optics, and stresses the importance of South Vietnamese military performance. They conclude that if a favorable agreement cannot be reached before the upcoming U.S. presidential election, the administration will be in a stronger, less-constrained position to act afterward.","topics":["Vietnam War","Henry Kissinger","Paris Peace Accords","Military Strategy","1972 Presidential Election","South Vietnamese military"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T03:56:36.154Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","henry-kissinger","paris-peace-accords","military-strategy","1972-presidential-election","south-vietnamese-military"],"audioDurationSec":286,"audioFiles":[{"file":"031-115.mp3","bytes":6856828,"durationSec":285.64,"bitrate":192041,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:28.233Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/031-115.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/031-115","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/31/conversation-031-115","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}