Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Peace Negotiations

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Hello?

Mr. President?

Well, Henry, I understand that all the three news shows were about Vietnam, and I wonder why.

Wilson called me, and he thinks that we've wiped McGovern out.

Did he really?

Yeah.

I thought you'd be interested.

I was in West Virginia, and...

Kentucky, and I played it even a little more low-key than we talked.

I just mentioned, I just said that based on the progress that has been made to date, I can say with confidence tonight that I believe we will achieve our goals, you know, just like that.

What was the response?

They practically take the roof off.

A peace with honor and not a surrender.

That's all I said.

And then I lay out the three things.

I said we have laid down only three things.

One, that all of our prisoners of war.

Two, a ceasefire.

I don't even say what kind.

And three, that the people of South Vietnam will determine their future without having it imposed.

But these North Vietnamese completely now because we're getting the credit or you're getting the credit at home for settling it while they don't get the benefit of an agreement.

And you don't think, I suppose the problem we've got, which we have to bear in mind, is that it's just a week early.

But on the other hand, I don't see in view of the message you got while you were in the yellow over room, they've got to come to Paris, don't they?

Well, they may not come next week.

Well, that's all right.

They may say the 10th.

What do we care?

You see, the longer they wait, the more of their infrastructure they're going to lose because

Well, but the only thing that they might do, you remember in 68, after Johnson announced the bombing, how Q blew it, threw the whistle, and that hurt.

You know, hurt him.

Yeah, but they hadn't blown the whistle this time.

Well, with the North Vietnamese, I don't think so.

I mean, the North Vietnamese, I suppose, could blow it on us, couldn't they?

They just put out the agreement and said they want it.

They're asking us to sign it.

I get, I see your point.

In other words... We have confirmed it, so now they can't say you're... Basically, all you were doing was confirming their agreement.

That's right.

I began by saying their statement is essentially correct.

Now let me just explain it in our language.

And, oh, the way I said it, I said, while there are some differences that have to be resolved.

That's the way I put it.

And that's all there is to it.

There are, they are very small.

Yeah.

So we kept right on...

I wouldn't say they're very small.

I didn't say small.

You and I know they're small because you use the term 90%, but I said, well, there are some differences that have to be resolved.

100%.

You've got a good reaction.

Of course, the point is they think you've got peace.

That's what they think.

But that's all right.

Let them think it.

That's essentially true, Mr. President.

You'll have it by November 20th.

But what have you heard during the evening?

Have you talked to any other people?

Well, it's dominating all the news shows.

Yeah.

They're playing it on specials.

They're playing big songs of the news thing.

Right, right.

And Colson called me.

My wife said you came through very well.

She saw you at noon.

Oh, did she?

Yeah, she said you were strong.

I mean, we were talking to Ziegler about it, and I just raised the question about what they were using.

And she said, well...

I don't know, some part where you knocked on the political things.

That's what she heard.

Oh, yeah.

I said, that's an unworthy question.

I said, can you really believe that a president who has gone through this anguish and through this four years, they said they suggested it was a hoax, would engage in a hoax.

I said, how do we know this is a hoax?

I said, our records speak for that.

Oh, God, that's great.

Mm-hmm.

And as far as Q is concerned, if he blows a whistle on us, then we're in a perfect shape to twist his arm.

He won't blow the whistle because he's wily enough to see that we are protecting him because at no point did I say that it was final.

Well, either that it was fine or that we didn't take his view seriously.

I kept saying they have a country that's been devastated, has a right to participate in it.

Right, right, right.

You really covered that.

Yes.

But you were... Go ahead, want to pick up the phone?

Right.

Hello?

Yeah.

Hello.

Yes.

And...

But you said that earlier you were telling me that Nelson was really pleased.

Oh, Nelson called.

And you heard from Bundy Reston?

Bundy, I hear from all people, of all sorts of people, that Reston called Carl Moore.

He's a lawyer.

He's a partner of a fellow, a senior partner of Gravath, Wayne, and Moore called.

Oh, yeah.

I know the Moore.

He married into the...

The Luce family.

I know them, yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

And I must have had 150 to 100 phone calls from people all over town.

Schreiber called and he said he watched it with 10 other people.

What'd they say?

They were applauding and they were saying it was marvelous and he just called me about it.

Great.

And congratulations to the president.

All right.

You know, one thing that is very good about it, Henry, is that you did it rather than me.

You see, it leaves it in a position where if I'd done it, then they would have thought it was political, that I was using it politically.

You see, that's the thing that I liked about this.

You're going out announcing this is really better than if we'd had the piece made and I'd gone out in a dramatic program.

You know what I mean?

And the fact that you are holding out for the final term.

That's right.

And, of course, when it's finally done, you can still make the announcement, of course.

Well, we don't care about that.

It'll be too late.

We don't give a damn about the announcement then.

Well, I think, though, it will establish your authority in the new administration.

Because you'll have been the statesman who went through this.

The only thing that...

I see Teddy Kennedy was saying that we were propping up a corrupt, propping up Q or something like that.

That's a lame goddamn thing.

Well, but what do they want us to do?

Undermine our ally, overthrow him?

Right, right.

And also...

They're going to be hacking around for excuses.

Sure.

And, uh, but we've got them right where the hair is short.

And I haven't seen the whole flow, but Colson called me and he said it was overwhelming.

The good Tim Buckley called up.

Congratulations.

Oh, did he?

Good.

Congratulations.

He said these are the terms that he had been hoping for.

Mm-hmm.

And so he got the right wing in good shape.

That's good.

Good.

The left.

The left, you know, the interesting thing now is we may find the left squealing only because they're so desperate about the election.

That's right, but what it does in any event, I think, is remove Vietnam as an issue.

Which we may not want to do.

Well, but he can't go around coughing about it.

Right, right.

On the other hand, it isn't quite settled yet, so the fear that Nelson has,

That it would look like we pulled a political trick.

Well, A, that you pulled a political trick, and now that peace is here, they should go with the domestic... Oh, you mean... Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

That is the Churchill syndrome.

Yeah.

Although it's not a comfortable situation.

Oh, of course not, of course not.

We all know that, yeah.

That was the end of a war and everything.

Well, anyway, you ought to get a little rest and hang on, hang on.

Okay, Henry.

Thank you.

Goodbye.

Good luck.

Get a little rest.

Great job.

Thank you.

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Peace Negotiations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on October 27, 1972

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