Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 032-063
Date: Thursday, October 26, 1972 at 11:44 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/032-063

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello?
[0:03] Hello?
[0:04] Mr. President?
[0:05] Well, Henry, I understand that all the three news shows were about Vietnam, and I wonder why.
[0:14] Wilson called me, and he thinks that we've wiped McGovern out.
[0:18] Did he really?
[0:18] Yeah.
[0:19] Yeah.
[0:20] I thought you'd be interested.
[0:21] I was in West Virginia, and...
[0:25] Kentucky, and I played it even a little more low-key than we talked.
[0:29] I just mentioned, I just said that based on the progress that has been made to date, I can say with confidence tonight that I believe we will achieve our goals, you know, just like that.
[0:43] What was the response?
[0:45] They practically take the roof off.
[0:47] A peace with honor and not a surrender.
[0:51] That's all I said.
[0:53] And then I lay out the three things.
[0:56] I said we have laid down only three things.
[1:00] One, that all of our prisoners of war.
[1:02] Two, a ceasefire.
[1:03] I don't even say what kind.
[1:05] And three, that the people of South Vietnam will determine their future without having it imposed.
[1:09] But these North Vietnamese completely now because we're getting the credit or you're getting the credit at home for settling it while they don't get the benefit of an agreement.
[1:20] And you don't think, I suppose the problem we've got, which we have to bear in mind, is that it's just a week early.
[1:30] But on the other hand, I don't see in view of the message you got while you were in the yellow over room, they've got to come to Paris, don't they?
[1:38] Well, they may not come next week.
[1:40] Well, that's all right.
[1:41] They may say the 10th.
[1:43] What do we care?
[1:44] You see, the longer they wait, the more of their infrastructure they're going to lose because
[1:48] Well, but the only thing that they might do, you remember in 68, after Johnson announced the bombing, how Q blew it, threw the whistle, and that hurt.
[1:58] You know, hurt him.
[1:59] Yeah, but they hadn't blown the whistle this time.
[2:03] Well, with the North Vietnamese, I don't think so.
[2:07] I mean, the North Vietnamese, I suppose, could blow it on us, couldn't they?
[2:10] They just put out the agreement and said they want it.
[2:14] They're asking us to sign it.
[2:16] I get, I see your point.
[2:17] In other words... We have confirmed it, so now they can't say you're... Basically, all you were doing was confirming their agreement.
[2:23] That's right.
[2:24] I began by saying their statement is essentially correct.
[2:27] Now let me just explain it in our language.
[2:29] And, oh, the way I said it, I said, while there are some differences that have to be resolved.
[2:36] That's the way I put it.
[2:37] And that's all there is to it.
[2:39] There are, they are very small.
[2:41] Yeah.
[2:41] So we kept right on...
[2:43] I wouldn't say they're very small.
[2:46] I didn't say small.
[2:49] You and I know they're small because you use the term 90%, but I said, well, there are some differences that have to be resolved.
[2:54] 100%.
[2:55] You've got a good reaction.
[2:57] Of course, the point is they think you've got peace.
[3:01] That's what they think.
[3:02] But that's all right.
[3:03] Let them think it.
[3:04] That's essentially true, Mr. President.
[3:05] You'll have it by November 20th.
[3:09] But what have you heard during the evening?
[3:11] Have you talked to any other people?
[3:13] Well, it's dominating all the news shows.
[3:15] Yeah.
[3:15] They're playing it on specials.
[3:17] They're playing big songs of the news thing.
[3:20] Right, right.
[3:21] And Colson called me.
[3:24] My wife said you came through very well.
[3:26] She saw you at noon.
[3:27] Oh, did she?
[3:28] Yeah, she said you were strong.
[3:31] I mean, we were talking to Ziegler about it, and I just raised the question about what they were using.
[3:37] And she said, well...
[3:38] I don't know, some part where you knocked on the political things.
[3:42] That's what she heard.
[3:43] Oh, yeah.
[3:43] I said, that's an unworthy question.
[3:46] I said, can you really believe that a president who has gone through this anguish and through this four years, they said they suggested it was a hoax, would engage in a hoax.
[3:58] I said, how do we know this is a hoax?
[4:01] I said, our records speak for that.
[4:03] Oh, God, that's great.
[4:06] Mm-hmm.
[4:07] And as far as Q is concerned, if he blows a whistle on us, then we're in a perfect shape to twist his arm.
[4:15] He won't blow the whistle because he's wily enough to see that we are protecting him because at no point did I say that it was final.
[4:28] Well, either that it was fine or that we didn't take his view seriously.
[4:32] I kept saying they have a country that's been devastated, has a right to participate in it.
[4:37] Right, right, right.
[4:40] You really covered that.
[4:42] Yes.
[4:42] But you were... Go ahead, want to pick up the phone?
[4:45] Right.
[4:51] Hello?
[4:51] Yeah.
[4:53] Hello.
[4:53] Yes.
[4:54] And...
[4:54] But you said that earlier you were telling me that Nelson was really pleased.
[4:58] Oh, Nelson called.
[4:59] And you heard from Bundy Reston?
[5:03] Bundy, I hear from all people, of all sorts of people, that Reston called Carl Moore.
[5:10] He's a lawyer.
[5:11] He's a partner of a fellow, a senior partner of Gravath, Wayne, and Moore called.
[5:17] Oh, yeah.
[5:18] I know the Moore.
[5:19] He married into the...
[5:22] The Luce family.
[5:24] I know them, yeah.
[5:27] That's right.
[5:29] Yeah.
[5:29] And I must have had 150 to 100 phone calls from people all over town.
[5:34] Schreiber called and he said he watched it with 10 other people.
[5:38] What'd they say?
[5:38] They were applauding and they were saying it was marvelous and he just called me about it.
[5:44] Great.
[5:45] And congratulations to the president.
[5:48] All right.
[5:49] You know, one thing that is very good about it, Henry, is that you did it rather than me.
[5:54] You see, it leaves it in a position where if I'd done it, then they would have thought it was political, that I was using it politically.
[6:03] You see, that's the thing that I liked about this.
[6:05] You're going out announcing this is really better than if we'd had the piece made and I'd gone out in a dramatic program.
[6:11] You know what I mean?
[6:12] And the fact that you are holding out for the final term.
[6:17] That's right.
[6:18] And, of course, when it's finally done, you can still make the announcement, of course.
[6:24] Well, we don't care about that.
[6:25] It'll be too late.
[6:26] We don't give a damn about the announcement then.
[6:28] Well, I think, though, it will establish your authority in the new administration.
[6:35] Because you'll have been the statesman who went through this.
[6:39] The only thing that...
[6:42] I see Teddy Kennedy was saying that we were propping up a corrupt, propping up Q or something like that.
[6:47] That's a lame goddamn thing.
[6:49] Well, but what do they want us to do?
[6:50] Undermine our ally, overthrow him?
[6:52] Right, right.
[6:53] And also...
[6:54] They're going to be hacking around for excuses.
[6:56] Sure.
[6:58] And, uh, but we've got them right where the hair is short.
[7:02] And I haven't seen the whole flow, but Colson called me and he said it was overwhelming.
[7:07] The good Tim Buckley called up.
[7:08] Congratulations.
[7:09] Oh, did he?
[7:10] Good.
[7:11] Congratulations.
[7:12] He said these are the terms that he had been hoping for.
[7:15] Mm-hmm.
[7:17] And so he got the right wing in good shape.
[7:19] That's good.
[7:20] Good.
[7:20] The left.
[7:21] The left, you know, the interesting thing now is we may find the left squealing only because they're so desperate about the election.
[7:28] That's right, but what it does in any event, I think, is remove Vietnam as an issue.
[7:34] Which we may not want to do.
[7:37] Well, but he can't go around coughing about it.
[7:42] Right, right.
[7:43] On the other hand, it isn't quite settled yet, so the fear that Nelson has,
[7:48] That it would look like we pulled a political trick.
[7:50] Well, A, that you pulled a political trick, and now that peace is here, they should go with the domestic... Oh, you mean... Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
[7:56] That is the Churchill syndrome.
[7:58] Yeah.
[7:59] Although it's not a comfortable situation.
[8:01] Oh, of course not, of course not.
[8:03] We all know that, yeah.
[8:04] That was the end of a war and everything.
[8:07] Well, anyway, you ought to get a little rest and hang on, hang on.
[8:22] Okay, Henry.
[8:23] Thank you.
[8:23] Goodbye.
[8:23] Good luck.
[8:24] Get a little rest.
[8:25] Great job.
[8:26] Thank you.