Conversation 032-065

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Hello.

Well, you've got quite a full day, Mr. President.

I was going to say we sort of knocked Watergate out tonight, didn't we?

I guess we knocked it off the stage.

I was just talking to Henry.

He said you'd call him.

Oh, Henry did a superb job.

But the point is that, God, my God, of course, we were already strong in Kentucky and West Virginia, but

They, of course, think peace is here.

Well, everybody all over the country does, Mr. President.

You know, it is a few weeks off.

And there's still some rough edges here that you'll scream about something, and the North Vietnamese will walk out a couple times.

But we now have an effect of the agreement all out there.

Well, the beauty of it was that the North Vietnamese put it out.

There was no way for us to do this.

I just think it was...

It was heaven sent the way it happened, and Henry handled it.

And two, it's heaven sent that we didn't have an agreement.

That's right.

So nobody can say politics.

That's right, on all counts.

And the president's holding out to get everything nailed down and battened down before he'll ever read anything.

We look tough and hardline in the North Vietnam.

These look like they're coming to us.

It's just, my God, and old George McGovern looks like he,

swallowed his lunch and has a very bad case of indigestion when he was oxidizing.

He looked pretty feeble.

There isn't, of course, there isn't a hell of a lot he can say.

But the, no, it could not have turned out better.

And as a matter of fact, the very group that are most excited about this, Schultz called me.

He was out at the University.

Schultz types, yeah.

Yeah, Schultz types.

And he said, my God, he said, they're just ready to start parades and people dancing in the streets.

And

and I had a call from Boston and the same thing, and Bradshaw from Chicago.

There's a hell of a reaction in the country.

I think people are very excited over it.

But those are the very people that if Watergate were having any effect, which I question.

If it were having any effect at all, that's the place it would have some effect.

Well, even if it's having effect, there's not a goddamn thing we can do about it.

That's our problem.

My God, this just overrides it so totally, Mr. President.

But, I mean, if it were having any effect, assume it were, it would be with the high-income college graduate suburbanites.

Right.

And those are the very people who are now just going wild over the Vietnam story and the way in which it's being played on the networks.

Interesting.

took over the three networks and they played it relatively straight i understand they played it very straight and uh in fact they're pretty hard not to that's right and they played it very positively and uh then cbs had an hour special on it they ran a ball of henry's press conference did they well between eight and nine and then great agronsky sidey rowan and uh oh boy what about what a murderer's role oh awful one other let's see one other sound of it uh oh uh car uh

that from the store and they just my god that they're ready for the padded padded cell i mean what were they saying raising pitching no no i must say saudi was was to give give the son of a bitch his credit was was saying that that we had done a tremendous job and that this was a great settlement uh rowan negronski was saying well the communists are going to take over anyway what difference does it make you know they they couldn't give us credit for

anything, no matter what we did.

Unless a girl would just look like a fella who was...

He's sicker.

Yeah, he was just ill.

I mean, he was just all through.

And they were all grudgingly saying how you'd pull it off.

And a couple of them took the line of, well, maybe this will help McGovern because he's been on the side of... Rowan said, maybe this will help McGovern because he's been on the side of ending the war.

And they all said, oh, no, McGovern is all through.

Did they?

This is silly that he's been in the side ending the war.

Of course.

The line I used in Kentucky, I said, we have made progress, a significant breakthrough.

I didn't go all as far as Henry did about the pieces in hand.

I just said, but I said, I

based on what progress we've made, I am confident that we will achieve our goal, which is peace with honor and not surrender should they take the roof off.

Well, I saw you, the 11 o'clock news, local news, which I assume is a network feed, had you at Huntington on the steps of the airplane with Arch Moore down a few steps.

And when you said that, peace with honor and not surrender, God, there was a hell of a response.

Great footage, marvelous footage.

It was profiled.

Cameras had you in a profile.

It was very good, and your words were excellent.

Of course, at the rally, you could have just—we were just a little late, I guess, for the feed.

It was something.

They had 3,000 inside and 30,000 outside.

It was the gut.

30,000?

Yeah, on the streets.

Holy smokes.

In a town of 50,000.

Well, I think you may find a hell of a reaction in Ohio and Chicago, Mr. President.

Yeah, there'll be nitpicking between now and then, Chuck.

You understand there'll be nitpicking.

There'll be rumors that, well, the South Vietnamese may be bitching and we don't know whether this is going to run the North Vietnamese or I don't know, you know what I mean, things like that.

But

But what's your reaction to that?

No, that isn't important.

My reaction to that is that people believe now that the war is going to end.

They believe that it really is over, that we are getting out on an honorable basis, that we haven't quit.

That we accomplished.

Henry did mention the May 8th thing.

Oh, he mentioned it.

He handled that extremely well.

And then, of course, he had a background later, which Scali worked with him on, and it was very, very well done.

And Edwards played all of that straight.

As a matter of fact, I think the second wave of this will hit people with even more force, perhaps, than it did today.

I think there's going to be a hell of a feeling when people start thinking about the prisoners coming home before Christmas.

There's a lot of emotional feeling.

I've talked to, oh, maybe a dozen people this evening, and

And their reaction was all the same, that their phones have been ringing and they've been calling France.

By tomorrow, you're going to find that there's a hell of a feeling in the country that has set in.

And even these jackasses on TV tonight, the Washington reporter, opinion maker, so-called, were saying, well, kind of grudgingly, well, this is the election and this is it.

But the election was over long for this.

But they were saying, well, you've got to kind of hand it to him.

He deserves it.

This is what he said he was going to do, and he did it.

And he kept coming back, and he said, well, five years from now, it may be communist over there, but Nixon said he was going to get us out, and he was going to get us out without turning it over to the communists, and he was going to get us out without a coalition government.

By God, he's doing it.

And you've got to give him his grudging.

Oh, hell.

And we're getting the prisoners, too, which McGovern wasn't getting, you know.

I think he's dead on this, Mr. President.

What will he turn to now?

Well, he'll keep talking about Watergate.

But, you know, if we get a positive reaction on this, people aren't going to appreciate us talking about Watergate at this time.

There's beginning to be a...

I don't know.

Just as I told you, there's beginning to be a little bit of kickback to it.

I told you yesterday I was beginning to get a feel of it.

Today I get a lot more of it.

Schultz told me that he got a hell of a lot of it in Chicago.

He was on a, I don't know, it was a 45-minute or an hour radio program, phone-in, not one single question.

And then he went out to Ed Levi's, President of Chicago University, Levi's.

I know.

He went out to his house for dinner, and he said he and his wife were just incensed over the fact that they were carrying this too far.

The editor of Barron's called in today.

What did he say?

Right-wing publication.

I know him.

He's a good man.

He wants to do a scathing denunciation of the Democrats for all of their dirty politics because he said this is just too far.

They're smearing.

The Wall Street Journal today had just a little touch of that in their editorial, but maybe this is it.

You know, maybe the Democrats are pushing this a little too far.

We're beginning to get this, that they're overplaying it.

People are getting a little bit sick of it.

Well, really, the Haldeman thing was awfully far because it was all a lie.

Well, and it was all staged, as Dole said today in a statement that got a hell of a lot of publicity.

I didn't get the networks because, of course, Henry, I mean, your peace initiative took off the air, but...

As he said, this was all staged.

They hit the hold of the thing a week ago.

Why did they wait until yesterday?

They waited until yesterday so that they could play it on the front pages, force the network, have the networks carry it, and then give a promotion right into McGovern's speech last night.

This was all timed.

This wasn't any accident.

And it's the Washington Post and George McGovern with their dying gasps, trying to get themselves, trying to rescue their campaign.

The old stuff has been very good.

We've been hitting

We governed quite hard the last two days.

And the printed media, I saw some of it from around the country from yesterday and today, is damn good.

We're getting good stories about McGovern's own, some of his own.

And, of course, the post attacks.

I think we bonded that.

That one doesn't concern me in the slightest.

Well, they'll have more.

They'll have some other on all of them, and I suppose some memorandum, they think.

No, I don't think there's a memorandum.

But I don't think there is one.

I mean, I just don't.

And if there is, it's probably just some report that doesn't mean anything.

Well, I think they've shot their war on this one, Mr. President.

I think the only thing that he can do, he will continue his very biting attacks on the economy, on his negative ads.

He's not capable of doing it, but his ads are quite good, I think.

He won this evening.

It was excellent.

They may not have that much effect.

Well, I think they're so overridden by Vietnam, Mike.

Just incredible.

But I just hope that we, on ours, we should continue our negative ads on now.

Oh, I... Don't you agree?

Yes, I do.

Just knock the bejesus out of them.

Well, we have some new radio ones on cutting defense, which we're going to be spotting in around the country, particularly into California.

We have three scripts now for the turnaround ads.

And, you know, I said, oh, yes, I think we need to spend a little bit of time today raising some money that we could run more of those next week.

Because I think that, I really think that we should not let up on this fellow for one minute.

Uh-uh, uh-uh.

It's terribly important.

Don't let him off the ground.

You're riding, you're riding so high.

I'm convinced after today that you're riding so high.

Well, there is something, of course, you've got that is, I told Henry, and this is something where you might get a disagreement with Connolly.

felt at the meeting, I could see that he didn't want Henry to get so much credit.

I don't think that makes any difference after all.

Henry does all of this stuff at my direction.

I plotted the thing, you know what I mean?

And I've written, and he was in his background, or he dug out the letter that I had given him to read on the plane, you know.

That's beautiful.

And that is very important.

But the other point is, it's better that Henry announced this than I did.

If I had done it, it would look like I was doing his election trick, but Henry putting it out, don't you think?

Oh, if you had done it, Mr. President, it would have been grandstanding.

Henry did it, which did not make it political, because Henry has not looked upon it as political at all.

I mean, he's looked upon as a professor, really, and wouldn't that now?

A great deal of wouldn't that now?

But he does not have a politician's image.

He dominated the three networks, and I tell him there wasn't anything else on the nets.

I mean, they just completely took him over.

I don't think if you had done it, it would have had the same impact.

Completely to you.

I don't think the... Incidentally, he said he had a call from Jim Buckley, which is good.

Buckley said that's exactly the kind of a settlement he's always been for.

Oh, isn't that marvelous?

So that holds one right-winger at least.

Well, I made a few...

I made him call Bill Buckley before, and he says he's got Bill in line, so... Well, I talked to the labor people today, and they're...

God, they were enthused.

Fitzsimmons is out on the West Coast.

He went to California at my request, and he's staying out there.

Good.

Paul Hall is headed out there this weekend, Mr. Fitzsimmons.

And he's going to work it over?

He's going to blitz San Francisco.

He's bringing out sound trucks.

Good.

He's got the signs.

But they were just, they were elated over the news.

Did they like that you explained that it was not a coalition government?

Oh, yes.

And we're getting the prisoners.

Yes, sir.

What impressed them about what you told them?

I'm curious.

Huh?

The prisoners.

They like that, huh?

Yeah, almost.

I mean, just, you know, God bless the President Fitzsimmons.

God bless the President.

God, he's been so right.

And just those boys will be home.

Isn't that marvelous?

And we wouldn't surrender.

We did it right.

You know, he takes full credit for that.

Why?

Of course.

I hope we can get to a meeting tomorrow somewhere.

Well, I've talked to Loveson several times, and I hope Haig is...

Hague is the right one to do that.

Could Hague over there in the morning, would you?

I asked him to.

I've talked to him about doing that.

I've talked to all our people today.

Lou Harris just feels the election is... What did he think of this thing?

Or had he seen it?

Well, what thrilled him, Mr. President, was that Henry talked about the October 8th date.

And you'll remember that Lou Harris...

gave us the poll early on October 6th, which Henry took with him to... Yeah, I remember I put it in his briefcase.

That's right, which Henry took with him to Paris, and that was the week, that was the 27-point lead that... Mm-hmm.

And so Boo takes a little feeling of personal involvement.

But how did he feel about the settlement?

Oh, he thinks it's absolutely superb.

He said there was just enthusiasm.

People excited, booed the radios, carrying around portable radios in New York, everybody talking about it, and he...

But Lou thinks that this is it.

He just thinks that you're going to go in now on a tremendous landslide.

He has been the strongest, as I told you yesterday, for coming out with something that gave people encouragement.

He's been a little bit afraid of the deterioration of the Vietnam issue that showed up in his figures.

And he would be, coming from New York, he'd be the most sensitive to this.

But he was

on the clouds this afternoon.

Good.

You got good circulation on our parochial school statement, I understand, didn't you?

Yes, sir.

Marvelous.

I was delighted that that led all of the

News accounts, that was the lead story that ate the parochial schools.

Yeah.

Got a hell of a play, interestingly enough, in Los Angeles, which was good.

Well, that's marvelous, because some of the Spanish-speaking Catholic areas are the ones that, as you indicated in that poll, are weak, and that's been a lot of Catholic schools.

Oh, I think we got a good plan.

Father Kub put out a marvelous statement.

Cardinal Crowe, I'm sure, will say something as soon as he's back.

I think he's coming in Monday, isn't he?

Yeah, Monday.

When he gets back from Poland, we can count on him next week.

He's coming in to see me, isn't he?

Yes, sir.

I think he's coming in on Monday.

Incidentally, be sure that Bill Rogers is there when he comes in, too.

Yes, I will.

That'll be good.

Oh, and he'll be...

that makes him look awfully good because, you know, he's fought the Council of Bishops and some of the left-wing elements in the Catholic Church wanted anti-war resolutions.

He's held them off, so he might even let him talk to some of the press people down here.

I think he could do it, and I think he would help us with the...

Right, right.

Now Connolly was filled in on this thing today, wasn't he?

I called Christian immediately.

Good.

Early this morning and told him that Connolly, I gave him just a brief fill of it.

Right.

He got a hold of Connolly just before he went on TV.

He was very appreciative of that.

Then I asked Bob to have Henry call him.

I'm sure that was... Be sure, check in the morning to be sure Henry calls him.

But Christian was... Henry must call him in the morning, though.

You see.

Henry, I'm sure he did, because I... Well, Henry may not have.

He had so many things on his mind that he might not have, you know, gotten around to it, but Connolly is essential for him to call.

Yes, I'll be sure he does.

I explained the circumstances to Christian.

The thing had hit us out of the blue, but... We had to confirm it.

We had to act, and in the long run it would...

Notwithstanding Connolly's reservations about this...

I was positive the bounce would be to our benefit.

I can't see any downside, nor could George.

Because basically I didn't announce it, because we haven't announced the deal.

We just announced that... Well, an agreement to agree, as they put it tonight.

What?

As they put it tonight, it was an agreement to agree.

But everybody played it tonight as the war coming to an end.

Mm-hmm.

But coming to an end on our terms, I was amazed at how good the coverage was, really.

And that was handled well.

Get to work.

Great day, Mr. President.

Okay, goodbye.

Thank you, sir.