Conversation 032-080

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Hello?

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

Well, how was the day here?

And I was able to get a hell of a whack in on Amnesty, too.

Boy, you sure did.

I heard that.

The TV didn't pick that up, but... No, but they...

Probably had it too early.

Well, the radio had it all afternoon.

Good.

They told the story of how the sign was out in front of the house, and you stopped and talked to the people and said, by God, there will not be amnesty.

Period.

What else went on here?

Well, CBS, to my surprise, had two other interesting...

Interesting things.

They led into the McGovern story by leading with that wire service lead for tomorrow.

He said he wouldn't support the president.

Yes, sir.

God, I just think that... Do you think that hurt him?

I don't know.

It just shows he's going to be a sour grape son of a bitch.

Yeah, but that hurts the hell out of him, Mr. President.

I think that kind of a statement is just going to cause people to gasp.

I mean, I think that's why... That is really why this guy is so badly regarded, because that's just...

That's just not the American tradition.

That's a draw.

You lose an election, you grin and swallow and bear it.

I've done it three times.

Yes, exactly.

And Goldwater did it.

Even more important than that, the country comes first.

I mean, the country is... You put your country ahead of yourself or your party or anything else.

If I lose the election, to hell with it.

I'm not going to call for national unity for this guy.

And I just don't think people...

I think people will react very negatively to that.

I was amazed that Roger Mudd used it.

How about the peace thing?

I noticed the star lit with the fact that Chew was bitching.

I'm not sure that bothers me too much.

I mean, if he bitches, we're going to have to twist his arm in the end.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest, Mr. President.

I think that Simley recalled today, and he said, he said, I think I miss red things.

And he said, I never...

to admit i'm wrong i'm kind of bullheaded but he said the attitudes are different than i thought they would be he said you're getting very very strong support in the country and not the reaction that i thought you would get and but we it was certainly that way in the country hell there the mcgovern people the only science they had up why not four years earlier that that argument is just totally that is that's not going to

That's not going to sink in.

The only argument we have to counter is that this was not a political move at the last minute, and I think that... Well, the fact that everybody's bitching that it's not going to be done is proof of it.

Precisely right.

That's why when you say if 2 is bitching, CBS led very straight tonight simply saying that there were no further reports, that French radio report that Kissinger was headed back there to...

I mean that Rogers was headed there to sign an agreement on Tuesday, which of course is not so, but the fact is that you keep the speculation alive...

And I think people, I just think there's a feeling that, well, we're now seeing the end, and it's just a question of working that thing out.

That's really the truth, too.

Yes, and I think that's the, I talked to Kissinger tonight, I think that's the one thing.

Well, he understands that at some point this coming week that he may have to make that point.

He was asking whether he should brief the surrogates tomorrow, and I said I didn't think he should.

I think he should stay out.

Rodgers will do it, and I'll give him a little pitch.

I think he should stay out of the political...

arena completely so that he's available to us if we need him later in the week to simply put the thing back into focus.

And then they let into the, or I guess they let into the government this comment about he wouldn't support the president if he lost and it wouldn't run again.

I think that ought to be hit.

Oh, God, I just want to exploit that.

Don't you think our surrogates ought to hit that?

Yes, sir.

What a shocking thing.

It really is.

I mean, apart from the politics, it's a horrible thing.

Particularly when the president has never attacked him.

That's right.

Never mentioned him.

We've got some very good material to give these fellows.

That's in their little packet that each one of them will take with them.

And a good answer to it, including the

the 1960 stuff and what Cardinal Cushing said after the 1960 election.

Oh, great.

What he said, Nixon should be the man of the year.

That's right.

And how you had refused because you put the interest of the country ahead to have Ryan come to Illinois, or to contest the election because it was more important that the integrity of the presidency be preserved.

What a marvelous contrast with this sniveling little guy.

And, of course, your speech today was, when you stop and think about it,

You were talking about a mandate for unity, a mandate for peace, progress, and unity.

It was a pretty damn good little speech.

A marvelous speech.

My greatest hope for the coming election is we emerge some of a stronger, not a weaker people.

Are you going to contrast that with McGovern saying, if I don't win the ballgame, the hell with the country, the hell with the president?

I told Holloman I thought we ought to run the one we did today.

Next week again.

You know?

Today's radio speech?

Yeah.

Oh, I think I absolutely want it.

Because you know it's easy.

Run it.

It doesn't bother anybody.

Well, it's got a lot of meat in it.

I, again, heard that on the radio this afternoon, and they were picking out some great portions of it.

It came through in marvelous contrast to what McGovern said today.

I mean, I just

Jackasses in the press, they probably won't.

Well, they won't.

With the two in juxtaposition.

Well, the main thing, we'll run the damn thing on radio again a couple of times.

Well, it's a good tone.

That was the one a week ago that was the new American majority speech.

That's the morality.

Both of those are kind of philosophical, but they have a nice feel to them.

Very good feel to them.

What are you excited about your lawsuit?

I'd like to do it.

I think the man that will for your advice is Rogers.

He's the best one.

I've talked to Bill about it extensively, and he thinks I have the best case.

You see, I gave a deposition to Bennett Williams, which Holliman did not, and I was under oath.

I gave sworn testimony that I had never heard of the damn Watergate, never knew anything about it until it broke, until I read about it in the newspapers.

I hadn't seen Howard Hunt for months.

He didn't work for me.

And Bennett Williams is the lawyer for the Washington Post.

He knows, therefore, under oath, I said I knew nothing about this.

Yet the Washington Post has continued to nail me as the guy somehow in some sinister way responsible for the Watergate.

Well, he's their lawyer who reviews everything they print for libel.

And he knows that as a lawyer, I under oath said I knew nothing about it.

So it

There's an implication of malice, plus the fact that Bradley, of course, is out giving speeches about how we've got to be destroyed, because if we're not destroyed, the free press is destroyed.

What better evidence of malice is there?

I think I may peculiarly, Mr. President, have a lawsuit that maybe nobody else has.

Bill seemed to think so, because of the...

Because you could prove the malice and the others can't.

That's right.

I think I could, plus the fact that I've practiced law.

And they had knowledge in this case, their attorney did.

That's right.

The same attorney who would review whatever they printed for libel had foreknowledge that I had sworn under oath.

And in his examination, he had every opportunity to tear me apart.

And I answered every question.

very honestly, and he knew it.

I mean, they are doing this, in my case, they're doing it very deliberately.

And in my case, I've, of course, got the additional argument of having had a very successful law practice in Washington.

I could make a case.

Sure.

You can prove damage.

That's right.

Exactly.

Which is a hell of a lot easier than the punitive damages.

So it may be that I ought to do it this week and do it

That's right.

The fact that Pew deserts us isn't going to make much difference.

I don't think they'll make a part of it.

Because the North Vietnamese have no choice.

They've got to stay with us.

Well, the key also is that, oh, damn right, as Henry said, when they get this poll data, that's going to make them even more...

They damn well better be.

But in any event, this week there's to be a total freeze on them.

Well, I think that we'll take care of those fellows.

Right.

We'll have four years to do it.

Right.

They're going up the walls over this rerun question.

They've been calling Tom Whitehead wanting to see him.

I've said to Whitehead, do not talk to them.

I refuse to talk to them.

Right, right.

That's one place where we can really squeeze them very, very hard.

We will.

Damn right.

Okay.

We have it coming.

Well, anyway, we'll see you at the circus.

We'll cup them up tomorrow.

Bye.