Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 32 › Conversation 032-154

Nixon, Ehrlichman & Haldeman on Health care policy and HMOs

Thursday, November 2, 1972 · 6:00 PM–6:04 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); White House operator; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation032-154 on Tape 32StartThursday, November 2, 1972 at 6:00 PMEndThursday, November 2, 1972 at 6:04 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 032-154 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon consulted with John Ehrlichman to express strong opposition to language regarding health maintenance organizations (HMOs) in an upcoming health care speech. Nixon directed that references to HMOs be removed and mandated that the term "national health insurance" be replaced with "comprehensive health insurance" to distance his proposal from socialist-leaning government programs. The conversation concluded with Nixon emphasizing his skepticism toward the existing legislative program and calling for a rigorous internal review of the administration's health care policy.

  • Health care policy
  • HMOs
  • Comprehensive Health Insurance
  • Political rhetoric
  • Socialism

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Mr. Ehrlich's been returning to President's call.
Yes, sir.
This health thing is, I know Cole's worked on it, but I think they're sneaking by me here some stuff that I don't believe in.
I'm not for these health maintenance organizations.
You remember I fought that goddamn thing out with Richardson before, remember?
Right.
Don't you remember?
I sure do.
We also want to encourage, he says, more health maintenance organizations and medical foundations where institutions help doctors organize or serve more conveniently.
My view is to strike that out.
Okay.
We also want to encourage more institutions which can help, in other words, strike out what the hell they are,
all right we also want to encourage programs we can say programs programs which will help help
John, I remember you talked about it, and you weren't for the damn things either.
That's right.
I'm sorry to say I haven't looked that over.
Well, don't bother.
But you see, I know I remember we had that Coles in the office.
He did it, and I haven't been able to reach him.
The other thing I wanted to ask you about, they refer to ours the choice between the National Health Insurance Program I have described and my opponent's plan for a medical system, which is paid for by taxpayers and the government.
Now, God damn it.
We're for compulsory national health insurance.
I'm going to repudiate it.
Well, it isn't compulsory.
What it is is an employer-employee contribution system.
But if you strike the word national, you may be all right.
What it is, of course, is private insurers.
All right, fine.
Strike the word national.
I get your point.
The health insurance plan.
It's a comprehensive health insurance plan.
I want an adjective.
Comprehensive.
Okay, fine.
Okay, John.
All right.
That's all I need.
Good enough.
I don't think the program's worth a damn, though, I'll let you know.
Well, let's take another look at it, then.
Oh, no, no, no, no.
I mean, you know, before we send anything back up.
No, no, I'm going to deliver it in the morning because... No, no, I mean in the... Oh, when the time comes for legislation... Well, I just want you to know... Yeah, I want you to know that on this one, I just...
I know the doctors aren't worth a damn.
I mean, they're a selfish bunch of people.
But I also know, John, that there are the worst socialists in the world are in this health care.
No question about it.
You agree?
Oh, absolutely.
They're horrible.
Well, you know, I've got a bias a mile wide on this.
Well, I know, but that's apart from that bias.
My bias is, I mean, I'm exactly the same because I have no, I think most doctors are frauds.
My point is, you know what I mean, that people are sick because they want to be, but apart from all that,
That's even assuming that it is big business.
And what we're doing here is getting the government and all these goddamn socialists in here, sneaking this under the tent.
Well, we'll take a fresh look at the whole subject.
Yeah.
I just don't know whether that's one of the reasons why I'm not so keen on making the speech.
Well, I don't know that you're committed to it.
I'm not sure it's even been announced.
Do you want me to check and see?
There's another point where our phone is clean.
Yeah.
I guess we're stuck with the damn thing, John.
We've already sent it to the Congress, haven't we?
That's what it is.
Oh, yeah.
Of course, it expired by its terms.
It's like, you know, welfare reform.
We're going to change that.
We don't have to be for the same thing we were for two years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, I'll go in the damn thing.
But just remember, I want a hard look taken of that by somebody that's not for it.
Okay.
Fair enough.
That's me.

NARA Description

On November 2, 1972, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 6:00 pm to 6:04 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 032-154 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 032-154

Date: November 2, 1972
Time: 6:00 pm - 6:04 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The White House operator talked with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

[Conversation No. 32-154A]

[See Conversation No. 390-14C]

        John D. Ehrlichman's return call

[End of conversation]

The President talked with Ehrlichman between 6:00 pm and 6:04 pm.

[Conversation No. 32-154B]

[See Conversation No. 390-14D]

        The President's speech on health care
            -Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
            -Inclusions
                 -Health maintenance organizations [HMO’s]
                     -The President's opposition
                          -Elliot L. Richardson
            -Deletions
            -HMO’s
                 -Ehrlichman's opposition
                 -Cole
            -National health insurance

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

                -The President's program compared with George S. McGovern's
                -The President's program
                    -Scope
                    -Private insurance
                    -Value
                         -The President’s view
                    -Revisions in legislation
                -Doctors and socialists
                    -Motives
                         -The President’s view
                    -Competence
                         -The President’s view
                -Administration review of topic
             -Announcement
                -The President's commitment
                    -Legislation before Congress
                    -Revisions
                         -Welfare reform

Also recorded on November 2, 1972

  • 032-152 5:29 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 5:29 pm to 5:31 pm.
  • 390-013 5:31 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:31 pm and 5:35 pm.
  • 032-153 5:35 PM · 25 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:35 pm and 6:38 pm.
  • 390-014 5:35 PM · 1 hr 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, unknown person(s), and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:35 pm to 6:38 pm.
  • 390-015 6:38 PM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:50 pm.
  • 390-016 6:38 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:50 pm.
  • 390-017 6:38 PM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:50 pm.
  • 390-018 6:38 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:38 pm and 6:50 pm.

All 86 conversations from November 2, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 032-154, November 2, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/032-154 (accessed October 11, 2026).