Conversation 033-007

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Hello.

Secretary Rogers.

Hello.

Hi, Mr. President.

Have you got any war started anywhere?

I don't think so.

Not even in the Mideast?

No.

Right.

They call it a pre-election.

Why, a pause.

A pause, right.

I was going to ask you what you thought about the...

how the McGovern thing ought to be handled.

Bill, I'm just going to stay right on the line I've been on.

Let me tell you briefly how I've been saying.

I mean, in addition to what it's basically the line I took in the television broadcast, I'm saying, first, we have in the negotiations made a major breakthrough.

We have

reached agreement on the three major principles that I laid down on May 8th, that there should be a ceasefire, that all of our POWs will be returned and they're missing in action, and that the people of South Vietnam should determine their future without having a communist or coalition government imposed upon them.

However, there are details and issues that are still ambiguous that must be settled.

want them settled because details can make the difference as to whether an agreement is going to be kept or whether it's going to last or whether it's not going to last.

And as I put it yesterday, I said that as far as election is concerned, an election isn't going to rush us into a bad agreement or it isn't going to delay a good agreement.

The main thing is to get it done and get it done right.

The McGovern charge, of course, is expected and highly irresponsible because of

He knows very well what the situation is and that we are trying to work on it.

And of course it is going to be worked out, as you know.

What is your feeling as to...

I don't know, frankly, how much attention to give to it.

I mean, I'm not going to give anything to it.

Do you speak again tonight?

I speak three times today, yeah.

Television to you, too, tonight?

Do you have another television?

No, no television today.

Do you have one Monday?

Well, you have one more television show.

Well, I have, but it won't be an opportunity to do this because it's simply an election eve plea for votes.

But all day today I'll be speaking in ways I'll be on the evening news.

Well, I think you ought to stay right on that.

I don't think I ought to pay attention to him.

I have said we're not going to make the mistake we made in 1968.

We're going to have peace with honor and not surrender.

I always keep throwing that into him hard because that, of course, is something that we have to do.

uh go ahead go ahead i think you want to stay right on that line i've got to be in this meet the press tomorrow and i thought i'd take him on some i don't i don't know if we want what i thought is that i would say pretty much what you've just said and say it's irresponsible and then point out that the timing of this was all determined by the northeast right yeah that's a very good point that you've been making we didn't we didn't pick the time we didn't blow the cover on the damn thing

I mean, they announced that we had this... On the veto matter, the veto by... Two?

By two.

That's right.

We can say that we, at all times, we made it clear that this is a matter that had to be done to the concurrence of the South African East because they're going to have to carry out many of the provisions of it.

So obviously they are concerned we can't make it...

The agreement affects them without having the agreement, but we think we can get it.

And that the points that they've raised in the discussions with us are valid, and that is what we ought to consider.

And that the points they raised really are to assure that there will be a ceasefire and that it will last so that the war won't start again.

And that's all we're trying to get from them.

Exactly.

Those points should be worked out, and they can be and will be.

But I'd be very confident there will be an agreement.

I think you ought to just say that.

That's what I've been saying.

Yeah, there's got to be an agreement.

It's a question of working out the details.

I think we can do that.

I think the more he can be attacked, the better.

I mean, the more that he can be, you know, not attacked for abuse.

I think at first...

It comes with ill grace for someone that has offered the North Vietnamese terms that go far beyond what we know.

I've got to agree to say this.

But the second point is that for him to accuse us of misleading the people and so forth by this, when it was the North Vietnamese that put out the whole damn thing.

I thought that the two words, maybe I'd use it as he's irresponsible and that these are desperate moves of his.

Desperate last minute.

Desperate last minute moves.

I don't know if we ought to go too far in making a personal attack.

I think those two are pretty strong words.

And then I think irresponsible and desperate last moves.

and explained that it was the North Vietnamese that made this public, and that you insisted on having an agreement that'll last.

And I think, too, the main thing, Bill, is to be very confident that it is, because it is going to be, you know.

You know that once this is over with, we're going to wring their necks and their goddamn thing's going to be done.

But nevertheless...

We can't say that.

That's right.

I think we should be very confident and say, look, we've got the agreement on the big issues, but we have to get them pinned down so that they will be enforceable.

We had a bombing pause in 1968.

It meant nothing because they rushed into it and didn't get the understandings nailed down.

Right.

I always hit that, too.

That's very effective.

Right.

I think it's going very well.

He's sort of coming apart at the seams a bit, don't you think?

Yeah, I think so.

Actually, it's natural that he would, you know, when a fellow's behind and all that

You know, he doesn't have the problems that we have.

You know, every place we go, not only me, but members of the family and these goddamn hecklers who shout all the time through this beach.

It's truly disgraceful.

And you just have to plow through it.

They don't have any of that, you know.

Our people are so goddamn polite.

I think they shouldn't be.

I mean, I just don't approve of it.

But nevertheless...

I thought the funniest thing was the kiss my ass remark.

Wasn't that funny?

Then he went and spoke to some ministers right after that.

I think it's going very well.

You've got a busy day today.

Well, today I do.

I'm doing three states.

I'm doing North Carolina for Helms.

There is a chance that he can be in the Senate.

It's tough, close.

We have New Mexico, where we think we have a

an even chance with the Minnichie, but it's close.

And then I finish in California to Ontario tonight, and then tomorrow do the usual things, Sunday and Monday.

And Monday is fairly quiet, isn't it?

Monday is, well, I go to a campaign headquarters in the morning in order to make the evening news, you know, urging the workers to get out the boat and so forth.

And then I do the television at night, which is mainly not a

Not a last-minute issue talk.

I don't think that goes well on Monday night.

People are just pissed off at politics.

I'm going to urge them to get out to vote—I mean, urge them to vote, tell them that the issues are clear.

verdict and so forth and so on.

Oh, another thing I think McGovern is doing that will backfire even with some of the libs is the same thing he did before the Democratic Convention, that he isn't going to rally around and try to bring the country together after the election, you know.

Oh, yeah, that was the bad thing.

You know, because after what I did with Kennedy and after what Humphrey did with me and all that sort of thing, and Goldwater did with Johnson, you know, it's just totally different.

Right.

Come back here Tuesday night, huh?

I'll be here 6 o'clock, yeah.

Well...

Okay, all celebrate.

Good luck.

Thank you, Bob.