{"conversationCode":"033-088","tapeNumber":33,"conversationNumber":88,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-033-088","startDateTime":"1972-11-18T16:57:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-11-18T17:01:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Nov-1972","startTime":"11:57 AM","endDate":"18-Nov-1972","endTime":"12:01 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Garment, Leonard;","description":"On November 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Leonard Garment talked on the telephone from 11:57 am to 12:01 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 033-088 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.1","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part I","chronReleaseDate":"11-Jul-2007","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 33-88\n\nDate: November 18, 1972\nTime: 11:57 am - 12:01 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone Operator\n\nThe President talked with Leonard Garment.\n\n[This is the original beginning of Conversation No. 033-088, which has been merged with\nConversation No. 033-087.]\n\n       Garment's location\n           -Note on Bicentennial Commission\n\n       Meeting with President\n            -Lincoln Sitting Room\n            -Dictation\n\n       Garment's location\n           -House's location\n                  -Alexandria, Virginia\n\n       Meeting with President\n\f                                           - 89 -\n\n                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY\n\n                                                           Conversation No. 33-114 (cont’d)\n\n            -Camp David\n                -Time\n                      -The President’s schedule\n                           -Football\n                           -Cabinet\n                -Day\n                      -Time of arrival\n\n      Second term reorganization\n           -Cabinet\n                 -Change\n                       -Necessity\n                              -Bureaucracy\n                 -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger\n                       -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]\n                 -Elliot L. Richardson\n\n      Garment's schedule\n          -Meeting with President\n                 -Time\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during\nchronological review 2007-2013]\n\n      1972 election\n           -Garment's reaction\n           -1962 election\n                  -Edmund G. (\"Pat\") Brown\n                       -The President’s letter\n                  -The President's concession statement\n                       -Tone\n                             -Carl Greenberg\n                             -Brown\n           -George S. McGovern\n                  -Concession statement\n                       -Garment’s view\n                       -Contrast to Barry M. Goldwater in 1964 and the President in 1960\n\f                                                - 90 -\n\n                              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 33-114 (cont’d)\n\n                               -John F. Kennedy\n                  -Goldwater\n             -The President’s role in history\n                  -Garment’s view\n\n       Bicentennial\n\n*****************************************************************","filename":["033-088.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Garment, Leonard"],"prevCode":"033-087","nextCode":"033-089","transcript":[{"start":0.17,"end":0.97,"text":"Go ahead, sir."},{"start":1.17,"end":1.41,"text":"Hello."},{"start":1.69,"end":2.47,"text":"Hello, good morning, sir."},{"start":2.63,"end":3.39,"text":"Where'd I find you?"},{"start":4.77,"end":9.92,"text":"You found me sitting at my desk writing a note on the bicentennial."},{"start":9.94,"end":10.3,"text":"Uh-huh."},{"start":10.36,"end":11.7,"text":"Trying to figure some things out."},{"start":11.72,"end":12.58,"text":"Are you here in Washington?"},{"start":12.86,"end":13.86,"text":"I'm in Washington."},{"start":13.88,"end":15.57,"text":"Could you drop over to the Lincoln sitting room?"},{"start":15.67,"end":20.61,"text":"I have a few minutes before I have to get us some more dictation."},{"start":22.27,"end":24.72,"text":"I'm sitting at my desk in my house."},{"start":25.02,"end":26.46,"text":"Where is your house?"},{"start":26.48,"end":27.14,"text":"It's in Alexandria."},{"start":27.16,"end":27.94,"text":"New York?"},{"start":27.96,"end":28.92,"text":"In Alexandria."},{"start":29.78,"end":30.66,"text":"Oh."},{"start":30.68,"end":32.1,"text":"Well, I'll tell you what you do then."},{"start":37.65,"end":38.91,"text":"I think the better thing is this."},{"start":39.65,"end":41.96,"text":"Why don't you come up tomorrow to Camp David?"},{"start":41.98,"end":44.16,"text":"I've got quite a slug of an appointment."},{"start":44.18,"end":47.34,"text":"What day were you—you're scheduled to come, aren't you?"},{"start":47.36,"end":48.66,"text":"I haven't heard anything from anyone."},{"start":49.47,"end":52.29,"text":"Well, you're on the list for next week sometime."},{"start":53.09,"end":56.31,"text":"But tomorrow at Camp David, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, either."},{"start":56.35,"end":57.27,"text":"That would be perfect."},{"start":57.62,"end":64.36,"text":"Tomorrow is Sunday for Christ's sake."},{"start":64.4,"end":79.14,"text":"I'll tell you what you can do."},{"start":81.94,"end":87.93,"text":"Come up Monday, which is really better, because tomorrow I'm going to watch football, if you don't mind."},{"start":87.95,"end":89.25,"text":"That's planned also for myself."},{"start":89.27,"end":89.47,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":90.07,"end":94.64,"text":"So come up Monday about 5 o'clock."},{"start":94.74,"end":99.74,"text":"Be up there by about 5 o'clock, okay?"},{"start":99.76,"end":105.69,"text":"Fine, because I know I'm getting through all the cabinet now, which is a hairy experience."},{"start":105.71,"end":106.49,"text":"I imagine so."},{"start":106.67,"end":111.27,"text":"But actually, you know, what we're really doing is shuffling more than running."},{"start":111.62,"end":115.35,"text":"which is the right thing, because I'm putting a new man in virtually every job."},{"start":115.39,"end":121.46,"text":"I think you'll agree, you know, the major problem with everything, Len, people become prisoners of the bureaucracy."},{"start":122.18,"end":125.45,"text":"And then, going over with CAP, I found this case."},{"start":125.47,"end":130.27,"text":"Incidentally, I think you'd be pleased to know I'm giving CAP a major cabinet appointment."},{"start":130.29,"end":130.68,"text":"That's great."},{"start":130.98,"end":131.74,"text":"That's terrific."},{"start":131.76,"end":133.78,"text":"And I think he deserves it, too."},{"start":133.8,"end":136.38,"text":"I'll tell you in greatest confidence what it is."},{"start":137.11,"end":139.19,"text":"Oh, that's marvelous."},{"start":139.41,"end":143.07,"text":"And I'm going to move Elliott, however, to another very high position."},{"start":143.92,"end":146.36,"text":"Because Elliott, I think, is first class, don't you think?"},{"start":146.38,"end":149.36,"text":"Well, they're both men of great intelligence and courage."},{"start":150.16,"end":152.13,"text":"Well, anyway, just range."},{"start":152.15,"end":152.85,"text":"Is Monday all right?"},{"start":152.97,"end":154.17,"text":"Yeah, Monday's perfect."},{"start":154.19,"end":154.93,"text":"Fine, fine."},{"start":154.95,"end":156.59,"text":"I'll look forward to that."},{"start":156.65,"end":157.05,"text":"Okay, okay."},{"start":157.13,"end":157.61,"text":"Five o'clock."},{"start":157.63,"end":159.03,"text":"What did you think of the election this night?"},{"start":159.06,"end":161.84,"text":"Did it bother you?"},{"start":161.86,"end":165.34,"text":"Well, I thought it was a pretty good election."},{"start":165.36,"end":165.44,"text":"Huh?"},{"start":165.93,"end":172.66,"text":"It's become a long way since that time, isn't it?"},{"start":173.21,"end":185.27,"text":"When you stop to think that ten years ago I just wrote a letter to Pat Brown, you know, and Pat Brown said he was thinking back to ten years ago when I had to make my concession statement."},{"start":185.71,"end":194.32,"text":"Which, incidentally, if you go back and read, it looks pretty good, because I was very kind to Carl Greenberg and the good guys, and I kicked a lot of the bad guys."},{"start":194.84,"end":196.08,"text":"But I was gracious to Brown."},{"start":196.14,"end":197.92,"text":"That's the important thing."},{"start":198.22,"end":200.87,"text":"What in the hell is the matter with McGovern?"},{"start":200.91,"end":203.19,"text":"That statement of his, I thought, was crazy."},{"start":203.66,"end":205.84,"text":"There's no sense of history, any of these folks."},{"start":206.11,"end":212.28,"text":"But, you know, when you think of Goldwater, how gracious he was after 64, how gracious I was when I lost in 60."},{"start":212.75,"end":220.71,"text":"And when you came in, one of the best moments in the past quarter century, announcing the election of Kennedy to the joint session."},{"start":220.73,"end":222.21,"text":"You remember when I went to the joint session?"},{"start":222.23,"end":222.85,"text":"Yeah, very moving."},{"start":222.87,"end":226.82,"text":"But I don't mean, I'm not bragging that, but Goldwater was very good, too, you know."},{"start":226.84,"end":230.04,"text":"He didn't say the country lost, for Christ's sake, you can't say that."},{"start":230.08,"end":231.52,"text":"I mean, he mostly believed it."},{"start":231.54,"end":231.64,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":232.15,"end":239.16,"text":"Well, you're just such an impermeable part of the history of this century, of the last 25 or 30 years, and the last quarter century."},{"start":239.54,"end":245.57,"text":"It's a unique sensation to be able to talk to you in these terms."},{"start":245.63,"end":247.98,"text":"Okay, well, get to work on the Bicentennial."},{"start":248,"end":248.86,"text":"Well, I'm working on it."},{"start":248.88,"end":249.72,"text":"I'll see you on Monday."},{"start":250.04,"end":250.28,"text":"Bye."},{"start":250.4,"end":251.3,"text":"Thanks very much for calling."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon calls Leonard Garment to coordinate a meeting at Camp David regarding the reorganization of his second-term cabinet. Nixon emphasizes his intent to break free from bureaucratic constraints by installing new personnel, specifically noting plans to move Caspar Weinberger into a major cabinet position and reassign Elliot Richardson. The conversation also transitions into a discussion on political conduct, with Nixon criticizing George McGovern’s 1972 concession statement while reflecting on his own history of gracious election losses.","topics":["Cabinet reorganization","Second term transition","Bureaucracy","Caspar Weinberger","Elliot Richardson","Election history","Bicentennial Commission"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T04:23:52.245Z"},"topicSlugs":["cabinet-reorganization","second-term-transition","bureaucracy","caspar-weinberger","elliot-richardson","election-history","bicentennial-commission"],"audioDurationSec":255,"audioFiles":[{"file":"033-088.mp3","bytes":6117261,"durationSec":254.77,"bitrate":192087,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:29.541Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:40.789Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/033-088.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/033-088","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/33/conversation-033-088","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}