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Conversation 034-009

TapeTape 34StartWednesday, November 29, 1972 at 8:12 PMEndWednesday, November 29, 1972 at 8:20 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the overwhelmingly positive reception to the appointment of Peter J. Brennan as Secretary of Labor, noting his effective television appearance and the strategic appeal of his "hardhat" background to the administration's constituency. The two strategize on organizational changes within the Department of Labor, specifically targeting the removal of Bureau of Labor Statistics personnel and the potential recruitment of George D. Webster for a position within the IRS. Additionally, Colson provides an update on the final 1972 election results, expressing confidence that the President's victory margin will remain at 61.1 percent.

Peter J. BrennanLabor DepartmentBureau of Labor Statistics1972 ElectionPolitical AppointmentsCharles W. Colson
AudioNARA Description

On November 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:12 pm to 8:20 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 034-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 34-9

Date: November 29, 1972
Time: 8:12 pm - 8:20 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

       Peter J. Brennan as Labor Secretary announcement
             -Reaction
                   -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                          -Frederic V. Malek
                   -William E. Timmons
                          -Congress
                   -Telephone calls to Colson
                          -Labor, Democrats
                          -Mickey Gardner
                   -Political effect
             -Television [TV] appearance
                   -Effectiveness
                          -Colson’s call to Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
                                -Network coverage
                          -Reaction to anti-black accusation
             -Reaction
                   -David Brinkley
                          -National Broadcasting Corporation [NBC]
                          -[Building and Construction Trades Councils] attacks on students
                                -Cambodia incursion
                   -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
                                       -8-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                           Conversation No. 34-9 (cont’d)

          -Media
                -Middle America
          -Calls to Colson
     -TV appearance
          -Reaction
                -Wire copy

Labor Department
     -Brennan’s forthcoming duties
          -Bureaucracy
                -Colson’s recent conversation with Brennan
          -Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]
                -Geoffrey H. Moore
     -George P. Shultz
          -Conversation with Colson
                -Pierre Rinfret
          -W. Allen Wallace, University of Rochester

George D. Webster
     -Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
           -John D. Ehrlichman interview
           -Colson’s forthcoming efforts
           -Interest in position
           -Salary
           -Erwin Griswold correspondence
                 -Ehrlichman
                        -Conversation with the President
           -Richard G. Kleindienst
           -Griswold
                 -Harvard University
           -Robert H. Bork

Brennan
     -Signal to constituency
           -Effect
     -The President’s comments
     -Quotes
     -Veterans of Foreign Wars [VFW]
     -Labor
           -Hardhats
                                              -9-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                              Conversation No. 34-9 (cont’d)

            -Irish Catholics
            -Reaction
                   -George Meany
                   -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
            -Paul Hall
                   -Statements

      Colson, Ehrlichman
           -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                 -The President’s schedule

      1972 election
           -The President’s victory margin
                  -Absentee ballots
                  -Votes status
                  -Communications with secretaries of state
                         -Clerks
                  -Illinois
                  -Colson’s interest

      Patrick J. Buchanan article

      Articles

      Appointments
           -Network reaction
                -The President’s statements
                -Brennan
                -Tone

      The President’s Schedule
           -Florida
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. President, I have Mr. Coulson now.
Good job, thank you.
There you are.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, I think our boy came off pretty well.
What do you think?
I just think marvelously.
Mr. Daly, did anybody check with Rockefeller on this?
I didn't.
I told everybody to, but did they?
Yes, well, I'm sure they did, Mr. President, because last night when we were scurrying around trying to get this announced, I...
asked malik too and he's very good at that stuff yeah i would be surprised if he didn't demonstrate but gee we've gotten just a first-class reaction how was it marvelous everybody's thrilled to death that i've talked to one of our friends called and said you know this proves you guys really you're serious about it what brand you mean no but the labor people we worked with in the campaign democrats uh uh mickey gardner
Good.
Mickey was pleased?
Yeah, said he'd heard, had a lot of calls about it, and he was just thrilled, and I got a, you know, just a list of calls.
I kept getting calls all afternoon from people.
Right.
This is the kind of stuff that will make you the majority party.
Right.
He was apparently very good on television tonight.
Oh, he would be.
He would be.
He would be.
I was working in the office, so I didn't get to watch him, but I called Mort Allen.
What did Mort say?
He said he led all three networks.
He was very articulate, very precise.
He got a little angry when they accused him of being anti-black, but just the right kind of anger.
Right.
That was going to hurt.
No, I know that's right.
Oh, Brinkley, NBC, Brinkley made quite a bit of the fact, I guess, that he had been the head of the union that beat up some of the students after Cambodia.
Good.
And Severide was very critical of that.
saying, well, this is a big job, Secretary of Labor, and how can this fellow handle it?
You know, that's what you'd expect.
I mean, this kind of an appointment drives those bastards right up the wall.
That's right.
They hate to see us.
That's right.
Make inroads with- They know what we're doing.
The Lamarck is damn right they know what we're doing.
Right.
But, no, I think, Mr. President, I got just a superb reaction from people, a lot of whom just called and said- Right.
He said, you fellas are doing great and just kind of thrilled by it.
Good, good, good.
And all the press conference up there, I think we'll see a lot of play out of it.
All the wire cap, he handled himself very, very skillfully.
Right.
And he's going to go in there and do a hell of a job.
You're damn right.
He's going to clean out, first of all, he's going to clean out the old bureaucracy.
We had a long talk about that last week when he was down.
And he knows that.
Including the BLS?
Oh, boy.
He couldn't feel stronger about it.
I've got to get him some good people that will go in there and help him.
Getting rid of Moore, I hope.
Oh, yes.
Moore does.
Definitely.
All right.
I talked to Schultz today.
That would be a marvelous place for a wind freight, but we could never get him to take it.
Yeah.
Wouldn't he be good explaining those...
The only other one that could take it would be, oh, he wouldn't take it either, the head of Rochester University, but he wouldn't take it.
Alan Wallace?
Yeah.
It'd be great if we could get him.
Yeah.
But I don't think he would.
Well, he won't do it.
We'll get somebody else.
Oh, hell, there's plenty of good Republican economists around here.
What's been going along okay?
I believe he was interviewed.
I believe Ehrlichman had him in this afternoon, and I just hope we can get him to take it.
He's got to take it.
Oh, God, I'm going to lean on him very much.
You tell him he's just got to take it.
This is his great opportunity to do something for his country.
One of his friends came in tonight.
He's wanted the job.
He wanted it before, and he's wanted to come in there and do it.
Chris, he makes it.
Well, over 100,000.
It's hard.
I know, I know.
But for Christ's sakes, he could make 100,000 later.
He could make it 400,000 after this.
Well, I've got to talk to him because I think I can get him to do it.
He is just so tough and so hard-nosed.
Yeah.
All right.
I sent his correspondence with Dean Griswold over to Ehrlichman.
What did Ehrlichman think?
Well, I don't know.
I just sent it over.
Yeah, I told Ehrlichman that you had some correspondence, and I thought, for Christ's sakes, let's get this over with because...
He's really being foolish on this damn thing.
He just wants to hang on to everybody.
He's being preposterous.
I mean, I think that's not a smart position for him.
Griswold's been a hell of a... Well, he's a holdover, first of all.
Well, he isn't with us.
He's a Harvard man, for Christ's sakes.
All for the Harvard crowd.
A hell of them.
We'll get Larkin there.
Oh, yeah.
Larkin would be fabulous.
He'd be tough.
Those are the kind of people that it says a lot to our constituents when we point out Brennan and we'll have more of these coming.
It says a hell of a lot to them because they know well that what that says is that we're going to broaden the base of that constituency of this program.
What you said about Brennan was excellent and his quotes were very good.
Good.
God, he really fits the VFW hard hat, labor, Irish Catholic, and very articulate.
He really is.
He's a smart cookie.
And he put in a very good statement.
Did he?
What did he say?
No, he said he thought he would be a great Secretary of Labor.
Great.
He was very pleased by the appointment.
That's what we need.
It was a marvelous statement.
Good.
And when I last talked to his people, Paul Hall was getting one out, so we'll get a wave.
Yeah, right.
Very positive statements by people, and I kind of find that many want to hit it.
That's all right.
Good.
I got it.
Fine.
All right.
Fine.
Well, you work with Haldeman-Ehrlichman for a couple of days, and I'll see you on Saturday morning.
Excellent.
We've got a lot of things to go over, and we'll keep this going.
Do you think you can keep it at 61.1 or not?
Yes, sir.
I'm going to keep it there if we have to go.
It's right on the button.
I carried it up.
Heaven's Day carried out the three decimal points in it.
It's right at 61.1.
And about half of them now are certified and official, so that I think the...
But it stands there now, does it?
61.1.
Do you think that's an honest figure?
Yes, sir.
I do.
The big one that this time I had other people talk only to the Secretary of State, not to his clerks.
Yeah.
We really checked it out pretty thoroughly.
So these are good figures.
The state that still has 3% out is Illinois, and we'll gain a little bit there.
I hope so.
Well, just for the history books, it'll be nice to be... Yeah.
Right.
Well, if we don't, it's all right.
But if we do, it's great.
It'll be just... You know, it's a little bit of frosting on the cake.
Right.
My young fellows in my office say, well, I can't understand why you're so damn interested in this, Colson.
And I say, well, it's the ultimate frosting.
That's right.
The president deserves it.
I get it.
It's good.
But I think it'll...
I feel now, based on what I've seen, that it will hold.
Okay.
I sent you in the Buchanan thing.
You'll enjoy reading that, Mr. President.
I will.
I'll read it.
And a couple of other articles you might enjoy that have come along.
I think we really, on the whole, the reaction's been great, and I really think the way you've been handling the new appointments is superb.
We've led the three nets this week in your statement and yesterday's announcements, and Brennan today led all three nets.
And there's a good feeling to it.
You know, it's got an upbeat sort of bounce, but instead of a letdown, it's great.
That's what we want.
Yes, sir.
We'll work hard in Florida, Mr. President.
Okay.
Thank you, sir.
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