Conversation 034-028

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Hello.

Good morning, Mr. President.

How was your trip to Princeton?

You survived it, huh?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Good.

Got out of the campus fine, huh?

Right.

I guess we were a little bit too overconfident on Mr. Strauss.

He got it.

He sure did.

And I was shocked coming back in the car last night to hear that on the car radio.

How bad is the news for us?

I don't think all that bad, Mr. President.

It would have been—in fact, I don't think it's bad at all.

It would have been nice if it had been the other way.

Yeah.

A party chairman isn't going to have that much impact, was it?

Yeah.

Divisions being— I suppose it gives Connolly sort of a cop-out.

Well, that's what I worry about.

Yeah.

That's my only worry.

If it does, then he really doesn't have what it takes to go for the big marbles, because, you know, he was—it's probably time to find out right now.

Well, of course, he openly supported Strauss, which Strauss admitted was the biggest albatross he had around his neck.

I'm sure Conley was figuring that Strauss couldn't get the votes just as I did.

I know he did.

I talked to him about it.

And apparently it was one, according to Charlie Snyder, who was there throughout and was trying like hell to help to defeat Strauss.

It was 102 1⁄2 to 102 1⁄2.

Yeah, they shut for the first vote, but then after that it was sort of walk away.

Yeah, well, he had them.

Apparently Strauss had the votes, but what we heard over the radio and the wires about 105 to 100 was really misleading because she had apparently—Westwood had switched enough votes, not in the understanding she would resign, but Snyder apparently at 2 o'clock had

one of the men in my office.

I was driving to Princeton.

The only place—you put your finger exactly in the central— South.

—is Connolly.

He can't get south that, can he?

Hell no.

Didn't he make quite a few promises that he'd go with all or— Oh, that's the thing.

He said he would stay with the party reforms, that he would not—of course, he had the backing of labor.

Do you think he gets Meany?

No.

No, he's not going to get Meany.

Are you goddamn sure of that?

No.

Well, we're going to stay with that one.

And Brennan, and we get Woodcock, of course, but he already had him.

Yep.

Let's go right after Meany and Fitzsimmons and the rest.

We've got to keep them, Chuck.

Oh, we're going to.

Well, there's no question about Fitzsimmons.

He's in there.

Yeah.

Paul is totally with us, Mr. President.

No way you can separate him from us.

He'll be with us all the way.

Meany, I think, would view the Brennan thing as kind of just going to play his cards very shrewd.

He knows he's going to live with us for four years.

He's not going out and knocking our block off.

He'd rather live with us.

And Pete's been handling him beautifully this week.

It'll be a field day for the left-wing press.

They'll say the Democratic Party's back together again.

Well, I don't know.

They have a problem with this.

to now say that it was a victory for the Democratic Party is really to say that the movement was just repudiated by the Democrats.

They've got a problem here, and it's also being— Oh, that's true.

It's damn hard to say this together when they have 102 to 102.

Either way you look at it, as I said yesterday, they're going to come out of the thing split, and they refuse to make it unanimous.

Well, we'll see.

But the unfortunate thing is the bind.

I think it poses for Conley.

I think he did it.

He's got to figure a rationale and just step forward and say this is it.

He gets no thing to do right now.

And if he waits too long, you know, it's going to be one hell of a time for him to shift later simply for the purpose of getting the power.

It'll be too obvious.

This is the logical time.

Chuck, there's no alternative to him.

I've thought a lot about it.

be, you know what I mean?

Let's face it, Brock, Percy, uh, Brooke— Rock the fella who wants it's too old.

Okay, well, Reagan who wants it's too old.

Yep, and wouldn't be—and wouldn't be—to pull it together.

So there you are.

That's right.

It's all a problem.

I think, of course, John ought to know that I've got

Do you have any objection to my discussing this with him at some point?

Hell no.

No, I think you ought to call him and give him your cold turkey.

He'll say that you're doing it on your own.

Oh, yeah.

That's the thing.

So I just say it.

You're worried about wanting to get his views, and then I pour it to him.

I'd say, for Christ's sakes, tell him we've got labor, we've got all that, and

got to move.

He may not like to have me pushed, but he's a very clever fellow.

But on the other hand, it's good that he hears from a few people, because he'll hear from the Democratic left.

They'll want to keep him in, you know, the

I mean, Bill Benton, they're all sucking around him now.

The old left, that's right.

Sure, the old left.

He's their only horse.

Except John Kenley cannot be nominated as a Democrat.

Well, I suppose if he thinks he gets Jackson and Hubert, he could, huh?

I don't believe so.

Jackson and Hubert couldn't pull it off this last time.

That's the point about the Democratic Party is that he's the only one.

If Teddy wants that, he walks into it.

Yeah, yeah.

John has got to realize that that's his only shot at it.

Well, anyway, I'll give him a call.

I'll do a little work on it.

All right.

Fine.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. President.