{"conversationCode":"034-085","tapeNumber":34,"conversationNumber":85,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-034-085","startDateTime":"1972-12-14T21:03:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-12-14T23:01:00.000Z","startDate":"14-Dec-1972","startTime":"4:03 PM","endDate":"14-Dec-1972","endTime":"6:01 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); Shultz, George P.;","description":"On December 14, 1972, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:03 pm and 6:01 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 034-085 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.2","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part II","chronReleaseDate":"2-Dec-2008","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 34-85\n\nDate: December 14, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 4:03 pm and 6:01 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nH. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman talked with George P. Shultz.\n\n[The President can be heard in the background]\n\f                                              -67-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 34-85 (cont’d)\n\n       Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]\n           -Dr. Edward E. David, Jr.\n                 -Budget\n                       -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger\n                       -AEC role\n                            -Coordinating agency for energy research and development\n                              [R&D]\n                 -National Aeronautics and Space Administration [NASA]\n           -Research laboratories\n           -John C. Whitaker\n           -Dixy Lee Ray\n                 -Dr. James R. Schlesinger\n\n       Science advisor to the President\n            -Shultz’s recent conversation with Haldeman\n            -White House\n            -David\n                  -NASA\n            -H. Guyford Stever of the National Science Foundation [NSF]\n\n       Internal Revenue Service [IRS]\n             -John H. Alexander\n                   -Haldeman’s forthcoming conversation with John H. Mitchell\n\n       Presidential telephone call to Milton Friedman\n             -Inquiry","filename":["034-085.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","Shultz, George P."],"prevCode":"034-084","nextCode":"034-086","transcript":[{"start":0.45,"end":11.13,"text":"First of all, what's the status of Dr. David and the AEC briefly?"},{"start":11.15,"end":23.84,"text":"The last track I had of it, which was the day before yesterday afternoon, he was going to talk to Cap about the budget."},{"start":24.98,"end":26.43,"text":"He had a question about"},{"start":27.93,"end":35.19,"text":"Wanting the AEC to be designated as the coordinating agency on energy R&D."},{"start":35.31,"end":35.59,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":37.13,"end":41.46,"text":"But his general attitude was favorable to the job."},{"start":41.94,"end":42.68,"text":"You talked with him."},{"start":43.32,"end":46.78,"text":"How would it be to put him at NASA instead of AEC?"},{"start":52.03,"end":53.63,"text":"They're similar kind of jobs."},{"start":53.67,"end":57.29,"text":"Yeah, but it works out to be a better appointment from our viewpoint."},{"start":58.27,"end":60.63,"text":"If it's somebody else for AEC, that's good."},{"start":60.65,"end":62.69,"text":"First that, and second, we need him in NASA."},{"start":68.24,"end":72.23,"text":"Well, I think he'd be as good at one as the other, and I think he'd be all right."},{"start":73.53,"end":76.85,"text":"NASA's really a bigger job as far as the job's concerned."},{"start":76.87,"end":82.66,"text":"Well, what AEC has that's very special are these research laboratories."},{"start":83.38,"end":83.48,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":83.5,"end":86.37,"text":"And they're undoubtedly the best."},{"start":87.09,"end":90.48,"text":"research that the government conducts."},{"start":94.1,"end":96.51,"text":"But I would think that NASA would be all right for David."},{"start":96.55,"end":105.27,"text":"I don't know what, I don't have the slightest idea how he would react and how much he's honed in on AEC or whether he has become uncomfortable enough sitting in meetings hearing"},{"start":105.79,"end":110.83,"text":"John Whitaker talked about how Interior is going to take this hunk out of AEC and that hunk out of AEC."},{"start":110.85,"end":110.95,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":110.97,"end":114.46,"text":"He doesn't, he sits there saying, hey, what am I going over there for?"},{"start":114.8,"end":114.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":116.68,"end":117,"text":"Okay."},{"start":117.02,"end":118.62,"text":"Who do you have in mind for AEC?"},{"start":119.8,"end":120.44,"text":"Dixie Lee Ray."},{"start":121.48,"end":121.56,"text":"Who?"},{"start":121.58,"end":122.27,"text":"Dixie Lee Ray."},{"start":125.89,"end":126.75,"text":"Commissioner."},{"start":126.91,"end":127.79,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":128.29,"end":128.83,"text":"Is she good?"},{"start":128.99,"end":130.5,"text":"Yep."},{"start":130.91,"end":134.04,"text":"She is."},{"start":134.06,"end":135.34,"text":"And Schlesinger says she is."},{"start":135.76,"end":148.54,"text":"One thing to have in the back of your mind is if we cut out the science advisor, I guess you and I talked about this yesterday, didn't we, and move all that out of the White House, we have to move it somewhere with somebody recognized."},{"start":148.66,"end":156.63,"text":"I suppose if David went to NASA, he could take that function with him to NASA and coordinate it, or Guy Stever could do it at the NSF."},{"start":157.88,"end":161.74,"text":"I think we're out of the woods as far as that."},{"start":161.76,"end":162.12,"text":"Okay."},{"start":162.37,"end":162.66,"text":"Okay."},{"start":162.78,"end":169.43,"text":"Did you do anything about the IRS thing that I mentioned to you?"},{"start":169.53,"end":170.71,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":171.03,"end":177.84,"text":"I raised the question and there doesn't, in the first place, there's no concern about John Alexander's view."},{"start":179.12,"end":184.19,"text":"And, you know, that isn't the problem."},{"start":184.31,"end":187.53,"text":"He's the guy he wants to go through with no matter what."},{"start":188.29,"end":188.95,"text":"I see."},{"start":188.97,"end":189.31,"text":"Okay."},{"start":192.06,"end":194.8,"text":"And I'll talk to John Mitchell on that."},{"start":195.56,"end":201.91,"text":"You know, I don't know that it's a big problem, but I think it will get this negative beat."},{"start":202.34,"end":203.96,"text":"Do you know whether he called Milton Friedman?"},{"start":206.72,"end":206.9,"text":"No."},{"start":207.22,"end":207.32,"text":"Okay."},{"start":207.38,"end":207.62,"text":"Okay."},{"start":207.95,"end":209.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":209.89,"end":210.01,"text":"Right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"H. R. Haldeman and George Shultz discuss potential personnel reassignments within the administration, specifically considering moving Dr. Edward E. David, Jr. from his role to head NASA while potentially appointing Dixy Lee Ray to the Atomic Energy Commission. The pair also touches on the organizational structure of federal science advising and research, including the possible relocation of functions out of the White House. Additionally, Shultz provides an update on an IRS matter, which Haldeman plans to address further with John Mitchell.","topics":["Atomic Energy Commission","NASA","Personnel appointments","Science policy","Internal Revenue Service","Federal research"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T04:34:12.988Z"},"topicSlugs":["atomic-energy-commission","nasa","personnel-appointments","science-policy","internal-revenue-service","federal-research"],"audioDurationSec":215,"audioFiles":[{"file":"034-085.mp3","bytes":5159960,"durationSec":214.87,"bitrate":192117,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:29.541Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:41.150Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/034-085.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/034-085","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/34/conversation-034-085","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}