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Conversation 034-138

TapeTape 34StartTuesday, December 19, 1972 at 8:18 PMEndTuesday, December 19, 1972 at 8:22 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On December 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 8:18 pm to 8:22 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 034-138 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 34-138

Date: December 19, 1972
Time: 8:18 pm - 8:22 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked to Henry A. Kissinger.

       Vietnam War
            -US bombing
                 -B-52s
                      -Report
                           -Third Wave
                                 -Number of planes
                      -Radio Hanoi
                           -Importance to guerrillas
                 -Xuan Thuy
                                      -107-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 (rev. Dec.-07)

                                                       Conversation No. 34-138 (cont’d)

                 -Statement
                       -Tone
                 -William H. Sullivan
                       -View
                       -Ambassadorship to Philippines
                              -Interest
                       -Conversation with Kissinger
                              -Paris
                              -The President’s position and possible action
          -Effect
                 -Enforceability of agreement
          -Reaction
                 -B-52s
                       -DC-3s
                 -Radio Hanoi
     -Negotiations
          -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                 -Forthcoming meeting with Nguyen Van Thieu
                 -Recent meeting with Lon Nol
                       -Lon Nol’s view of Thieu
                              -Settlement agreement
          -Settlement agreement
          -[US bombing]
                 -Compared to May 8, 1972 decision
                 -[Bilateral deal]
                 -Sullivan’s conversation with Kissinger
                       -Technical meetings

Appointments
     -Sullivan
           -Philippines
     -Marshall Green
           -The President’s recent conversation with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                 -Australia
           -Indonesia
                 -Businessman
                                            -108-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Dec.-07)
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Mr. President, I have Dr. Kissinger.
Aye.
Go ahead, please.
Hey, Henry.
Mr. President.
Aye.
I just wanted to tell you that the third wave of B-52s cut out and no planes sat down.
Good.
So out of 90 today, we only had one damaged and that returned to the base.
Good.
Do you hear anything?
Well, Radio Hanoi has been off the air for 10 hours.
All right.
Good.
And that is bound to create havoc up there.
Good.
Because they rely on that radio, and also it's the radio on which all the guerrillas rely for news and instructions.
Right.
So I think we're giving them a message they won't forget so easily.
Right.
Actually, when one reads one tweet statement today, it's reasonably restrained.
So they may go tough on us tomorrow.
Well, if they do, they do, right?
I think, Mr. President, it's the only right cause.
Sure.
Well, you know, it's interesting that that fellow Sullivan, who, of course, is basically play the winners—
But you really think that he honestly thinks we did the right thing, or do you think he's just playing the games?
He wants to be ambassador to the Philippines, which is nice.
He hardly plays the game, but...
He didn't think we'd do it, huh?
Oh, no.
I told him in Paris that when we left, he said, well, the president is caught between the two Vietnamese parties.
I said, the worst mistake anyone can make is to think this president lets himself be caught
I said, I have no idea what he's going to do, but my guess is that he'll turn on both of them.
Right.
And I think if we now get the agreement, it makes it enforceable.
Sure.
That's the point, isn't it?
Exactly.
Now we've got their attention.
Yeah.
Well, as a matter of fact, the whole business about the bombing, it hasn't raised all that much hell yet.
No, it's amazing.
It has raised very little hell.
People don't give a damn whether it's a B-52 or a DC-3.
That's right.
And the part is that they realize that we've got to do something.
We just can't sit here.
And, of course, that little handicap because they do annoy putting anything out.
They don't know what the line is.
That's right.
They've been off the air now for, well, for ten hours.
Good.
Now when are you going to hear from Haig?
Well, Haig is seeing Thieu again tomorrow, so I should hear by noon.
But he already saw Lone Noel.
Lone Noel thinks that Thieu is crazy.
He doesn't understand why he doesn't jump at it.
He does?
Yeah.
Good.
He's convinced him at least.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, no, we'll come out of this, if we get an agreement now, we'll come out a lot stronger.
Well, the main thing is we got a few chips we didn't have any before.
Now we got some at a very great cost, but to hell with it.
Well, Mr. President, if it works, it's going to be like May 8th.
Yeah, and if it doesn't work, we've still got an option.
Well, if it doesn't work, we, A, got an option,
we are no worse off than, we are even then better off than having done nothing.
That's right.
Because the other thing had a much better chance of not working.
Because Bill Sullivan told me how they stonewalled us in the technical meeting.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Right, Mr. President.
Well, Sullivan's earned the Philippines as a result of this.
Yeah, he certainly has.
And we'll put him there.
And then I also told all of them today we'll put Marshall Green in Australia.
Good.
Excellent.
Get him held in up with a businessman.
A businessman, believe me, in Indonesia.
Right.
Yeah, one of our men.
Absolutely.
Okay?
Right.
Absolutely.
Bye, Henry.
Bye, Mr. President.
Bye.
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