Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War and Public Opinion

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Hello?

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

Well, how are you doing today?

Fine.

You had a busy day, sir.

Yes, it was a good day, though.

We paid our respects in a very proper way, and that worked.

I think it went quite well, actually.

On television, I thought it came across very well.

I think it was what I was talking about last night, a good thing for the American people to see you in the position of representing all the people at a funeral that

but a lot of sense of history to it.

I think it was good, and since he had to die, I'm glad the time was what it was.

Well, I deliberately didn't do anything on sound because I didn't think it was the right thing at that point, because the Trumans wanted to have a private funeral, and that's why we left it.

Well, I thought the demeanor was just right.

The tone was right, and the

photographs were good, and your expressions were in keeping.

And the networks actually were on.

They saw NBC, but I checked them with the others, gave it less time than I thought.

But of course, they were all led with footage of you and Mrs. Nixon.

Good.

And the Johnsons.

So it was good.

It was good to have the Johnsons and ourselves there.

It was done in good taste.

Right.

move the bombing back into the latter part of the news which is good yes it is i feel more strongly than yesterday mr president that the attitude in the country is really very very quiet on this i just well

Because you know, it's one of those things, they're terribly disappointed that the damn thing hasn't worked out and this and that, but what really counts is how it all comes out in the end.

Yeah, but it's really, it's not a strong reaction.

It isn't.

I don't, really, just don't.

Interesting thing out there today, I was wondering whether we'd have a few demonstrators out, but there were none.

No.

No, I don't think there would be.

I mean, I think there wouldn't be because of the funeral, but I... Yeah, but there have been on previous times, you know.

But

that people just aren't that disturbed about it.

I spend a hell of a lot of my day, probably more than I should, talking to people.

Oh, that's what you should do.

Bloody telephone.

No, one raises this with me.

I've had all kinds of calls.

Well, as I told you, Billy Graham was worried about this and that, and a lot of others are, and they are worried, but so are we.

He was attacked a little bit for being too close to us and being...

too much of a war hawk.

He may be especially sensitive right now.

I talked to Kissinger this afternoon.

He called me.

Obviously, all I'm going to talk to him because he was very contrite.

And he said, have you got the cameras watching my room, Chuck?

I said, no, I don't, Henry.

And then he said, I'm not going to talk to anybody this week.

He said, I won't see anyone.

So I got the message to Holdeman this morning early, and I guess Bob must have talked to him because when he called this afternoon, he kind of wanted my assessment of where things stood.

I told him I thought we were in great shape.

I thought we would be through next week or well into next week when the jackasses in the Congress will start spouting off.

That may or may not, depending on what we do.

Oh, that's right.

Oh, I meant if the status quo is, if the thing is unchanged, I think it will work.

Right.

But I really feel we've just maybe a gut instinct, but I'm usually right about this.

The mood of the country just is not very concerned, Mr. President.

Nobody's enthusiastic about what we're doing, but I don't know that's stirred up about it either.

Maybe that's what we have to play with right at the moment.

Yeah, I don't think there's a reaction either way.

I think people just figure that while I was looking at it, I don't have any current signaling about it because he stops pulling on it.

on christmas and he starts up again tonight but i was looking at the the support for bombing increased during the three four days that he pulled each day really yep each day went up a couple of points it got up to uh 40 on the last day that he was pulling which is consistent with what he's found in the past about 40 say you know bomb and and another and the 20 to 25 are just

Against anything.

But at least he's not showing a deterioration.

So it just continued to bomb, do what has to be done to fall out.

That category was rising every day.

Now, he quit over the weekend, so I don't have a...

Right.

Well, we'll let it go.

That's right.

But my instincts are very strong that we're just not getting a... We're not getting a bad bounce on this at all.

And I think we're totally in the clear, as I told Kissinger, into the middle of next week.

And at that point, they'll start coming back.

Sure.

Yeah.

They'll have to fight over who's going to be the whip.

Not much fight, I guess, over the leader.

But there'll be organizational battles, and that'll keep some of them busy.

Yeah.

Who's going to take the whip's place, huh?

That's right.

I guess— Who do you think—no, who's going to take the majority leader in the House?

Oh, I think Tip O'Neill would win that.

O'Neill, all right.

Of course.

He'll be tough for us to deal with.

I happen to know him well personally.

He's a very decent guy, but he's a brass-collar Democrat who, I don't know who will succeed him.

I guess there are, I heard today, maybe 20 people jockeying for position.

Bob Byrd in the Senate, we tried to get him on television tomorrow.

CBS is doing a special on Vietnam, naturally.

Oh, those bastards.

The only network that would do it.

We try to get Burt on, and of course he's worried about getting re-elected.

Lying low, right?

So we didn't push it.

Don't push it, that's right.

But he's totally with us.

We really don't have a problem with him.

We've had people up briefing him.

Good, good.

Good, that's the thing to do, just to keep our guys well briefed so they don't get out on a limb.

Yeah, we had Griffin briefed today, and Scott will be fine.

Scott will be

He'll behave, won't he?

Pardon?

He's got to behave, won't he?

Oh, yeah.

He'll whimper.

He'll whine a bit.

He doesn't whine.

Well, none of us do.

Oh, hell no.

But he'll stay in line.

So I talked to Tim today.

We've been slowly, and Scali has been working on this, we've been slowly picking him off one by one.

That's the way to do it.

Just keeping him quiet.

Actually, there hasn't been a...

keep out of the Senate or the House this week.

Nothing.

They're just a little bit afraid of getting out on the limb on this, aren't they?

I think they may be, Mr. President.

I think that's a beration.

They're right.

Yeah, well, I'd like to get a few of them out and saw it off.

Teddy Kennedy, of course, spouted it off earlier on the weekend.

I know.

And Mansfield made a few.

What's Mansfield say?

Get out?

Well, last week.

Last week.

Yeah, we haven't said anything this week.

No one has said anything this week.

I've been watching the wires every couple of hours.

Yeah, well, they're all on vacation, you know, too, and that's another thing.

Well, I think they also know that what they say isn't heard.

You know, we got that marvelous story out on tying this to the prisoners last week.

That'll help a bit.

Keep it up, though.

Keep that one up.

Oh, that's the line.

And incidentally, Dole ought to start hitting that.

You ought to get Dole and tell him he ought to start making that his cause.

We've gotten to him.

Bryce has talked to him.

Dole may go up in smoke if he doesn't behave himself.

Of course, Bob, he's on one day and off the next.

I know.

Incredible.

Incredible guiding.

Of course, he's in Florida now, resting, so what the hell?

Most everybody is.

It's been very, very difficult to reach people.

We have talked to a few, but I just don't think people's minds are on this.

I hear from enough people from around the country, the new majority.

Every day, as I did today, I spent a hell of a lot of time on the telephone.

No, not a single person raised this with me.

Nobody said this.

When are we getting the damn bombing over with, or how long is this going to be?

You didn't raise it with me.

Not a single person.

That's good.

They're talking to me about who are we appointing to this job or that, or, you know.

Fine, fine.

Not a single person.

And I've kind of been keeping book on this because, to me, it's something of an indication of how people feel.

Right.

At least our constituency.

About that?

Our constituency naturally is worried, as we are, but we can just sort of keep them from getting out on the limb before something happens.

Not even sure they're worried.

I think if they were worried, I'd be getting some of that, and I'm just getting none of it.

Neither is my assistant, Dick Howard, who often takes calls from people now.

There's kind of a feeling of...

It's Christmas.

Herb Stein did an economic briefing today.

My God, it's the most bullish thing I've ever seen in my life.

Well, it should be bullish.

The goddamn economy thing is really great.

Well, they came because the preliminary gross national product shows that they underestimated before.

It's going to be really right out through the ceiling, isn't it?

It is through the ceiling.

It's the biggest it's been in years.

They underestimated it before the election.

That's good.

we could now because we didn't need it then now we need it yeah but that's up and gave a very very upbeat briefing today and that you know people are talking about that they're talking about football they're talking about uh people you're appointing to positions in the administration it just isn't that it really is not that great yeah i was interested to note that the uh

Washington Papers are playing up this clown Marston, you know, who is a bad actor, you know.

NIH, I numbered him a long time ago.

He used to go, and so a thousand scientists and doctors object.

Who the hell?

I bet 90% of them are for Montgomery.

I happen to have a second cousin who is a doctor at NIH, and he says he's the only Republican in the goddamn place.

That's a complete...

So they don't want us to move it, for Christ's sakes.

Marston's not our man, you know.

We didn't put him in the goddamn job.

I'm glad we've got...

In any event, we've got...

Weinberger over there, and he'll be tough.

Oh, he'll be great.

The Brennan thing continues to send up great signals.

Does it really?

Good.

How's that?

Well, Evans Novak today had the column about how he went in and ordered everybody to put your picture in every office.

Ah, good.

And it's a very, you know, it's a very...

It's a great reflection on our loyal cabinet people who have not done it.

That's right.

Right?

He told me he found one picture of you in that...

I know.

And after we had Schultz and Hodgson in there, who were totally loyal, but basically would not insist on that sort of thing, they go in there and, Christ, they got Kennedy's picture up.

Not Johnson's, just Kennedy's.

Well, God damn it, that's wrong.

That's right.

Well, the Evans and Novak piece says Brennan, quote, a resplendent

uh and then it goes on to talk about how he is really come in and just uh added some color and he started kicking people around and he's got the bureaucrats all worried and it's a great washington column it doesn't mean that much i know but it'll shake up this establishment oh christ it sure will do that the wall street journal had a similar one today it was interesting and the grizel had one so it's he i must say pete's uh pete's activities since he got named

a hell of a salutary effect.

They look at that, you know, and I think it has an impact on our own people.

It gets a little bit of feeling of life into them.

And he's doing it.

God, he really is.

But Evans and Novak, they gave it a positive play.

They said that, as did the Wall Street Journal of Europe, that this is not a Durkin appointment.

No, hell no.

Brennan and I are friends.

We've known each other for years.

Eisenhower didn't know Durkin.

He called him Mr. Durkin Christ.

Brennan is Pete to me, you know.

And Durkin had supported Stevenson, whereas Brennan, of course, was head of the Labor Committee.

And it makes the point that you're very eager to cement the new majority.

So it's positive stuff, and Pete sees that.

He's great when you put him before his eyes.

this now four or five that's the stuff he wows the hell up he's a hell of a guy he really is he's a he's a first-rate but i but that kind of thing is well we'll keep fighting the battle and uh i think we're going to do just fine mr president i i think i was talking to uh jerry warren uh going out in the plane he said the cbs was really worried why the hell they worried

And I know I played dumb.

He says, I don't know.

He says, they seem to be very worried.

I said, nothing we can do to them.

Nothing.

He says, they think so.

And Buchanan had lunch with them, with Small and the rest.

And Buchanan was in, working on his little book.

And I said, well, Pat, I don't know why the hell they're worried.

He says, there's not a damn thing we can do.

You realize that, Pat?

Well, they think so.

I said, well, Pat, what the hell can we do?

He said, well, I don't know.

I said, but they think so.

Oh, we...

I think that knows.

That's the way to play it, don't you think?

Oh, absolutely.

Well, that's precisely the way you should play it.

Yeah.

Oh, yes, but they're...

They are worried, though, aren't they?

Oh, CBS is up the walls, Mr. President.

Well, they should be.

They've been vicious and...

Mean bastards.

That's right.

Whatever we can do to them... That's right.

Whatever we can do to them, they deserve.

No, but they're worried as hell.

They really are.

The main one thing we're going to do, though...

I've decided on all the networks.

We've got to go all out for cable.

I think cable hurts all the networks.

Some of them like it a little better than others, but CBS has got an interest in it.

But boy, when we go out for cable, that will really stir them up.

Well, it sure is the whole existing structure.

The establishment, sure.

But it's also very good for the public.

Well, it ought to be done.

That's right.

It's something that is damn good for the country.

And so when you can be, you know, we'll be totally on the side of motherhood, but we'll really screw these guys.

You know, it just amuses me, really, more than anything else.

These guys are absolutely pathetic.

The last issue of Life magazine, big double issue and filled with, you know, crocodile tears that this is the end of life.

Yeah, it's a shame.

pictures of the past year, and they've got pictures of Eagleton, and they've got pictures of McGovern, and they've got pictures of Muskie, and they have two pages out of maybe a hundred pages.

One in China, one in Russia.

Not a single picture of the election, not a single picture of the

The great story of 1972.

Oh, I know.

Sure.

And they saw it.

They're done now.

Well, it's their last issue.

Thank God.

I just kind of look at it as the dying gasp, one of the last pillars of the old establishment.

They're down the tubes, but the bastards take their last issue and stick it in.

That's all right.

Nobody's going to read it.

No, it isn't.

They're dead, and...

You are very much alive and well.

Which really disturbs them.

Of course it does.

I've had an interesting reaction.

You mentioned to me the other day about Volpe.

I've heard from more Italians.

Really?

Yeah, real enthusiasm.

What a fantastic thing this is to have an Italian going back to Rome.

I know that was a good stroke.

And then putting Scali in the U.N.

Marvelous.

People like that too, don't they?

Yes, sir.

But I think we've, I really, I feel a little bit apprehensive about the Italian reactions, but I've been getting it.

Yeah, well, look, it's a bigger job.

Who the hell cares who's Secretary of Transportation?

They care a hell of a lot who's Ambassador to Rome.

Well, it has a big emotional pull to the Italians.

Be sure you let Volpe know that, will you?

I've talked to him.

I've told him.

Does he feel good?

Oh, God, he's up in the clouds now.

He was down a little bit.

I know.

You know, at the beginning.

But, oh, no, God.

Well, he's hearing from all of us.

you know, the hinterlands himself, and they're deifying him as the first Italian-American to go back as an ambassador.

It's a very big thing to him.

So that's had a good reaction.

You know, the other interesting point is that we've had so many parties at the White House, church services, and receptions.

You never hear from the people afterwards.

No, I know.

We never do.

I've got perhaps 20 letters, maybe...

maybe more from the people that were invited into those Blair House affairs, the new majority.

They appreciated it, didn't they?

And they're just, well, they're so effusive.

It's so different from the business council arrest.

Oh, one thing that you'd check.

Maury Stans submitted a list of all the people who contributed, you know, in the 200 and above and 100 and 200 and so forth and so on.

And I'd like for you to look at that list to see how many members of the business council are on any of those.

We may find a couple.

That's what I mean.

Yeah, we may find three.

Let's find out.

I'll check that.

I know his list.

I've got a copy of it.

Yeah, okay.

I'll do that, too.

But the other people we've had in like, God, they're just a fuse of letters.

That's great, because that's why we did it.

And at the inaugural, we'll do the same damn thing.

We've got them all coming in.

We've got a good... And the black tie helps a lot, too, because they don't have to dress up too much.

Yeah, that's...

The whites can dress, and they don't have to dress.

And that's gotten a very good play, that we're not... Has it?

Yeah, that we're not going white tie because of the recognition of the kind of people that...

Why'd I have people go out and rent those damn white tires?

I think it's marvelous.

Okay.

Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War and Public Opinion

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on December 28, 1972

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