Nixon phone call with Kennedy on Vietnam War and Peace Negotiations

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Yeah.

Good morning, sir.

As soon as you get any further information from Henry, what I'm interested in now is not substance, but with regard to his own plans and so forth, you bring it right over at the EOB, because I'm working on other things, but I'm going to get that off.

Yes, sir, right.

Because the other thing is that in terms of the information,

uh where uh the i'm having timmons make up the list of i mean a pair of various people but there's also should occur to me most important there's a question of uh rogers and laird of course right i mentioned this in the note to henry last night and uh it's something i don't want to do i'm not going to i mean i don't want to i want them to

appeal to me about with regard to changing schedules and so forth you know which they will do right off to henry do you understand what i mean yes sir i understand and uh on the other hand uh telephone calls will handle that i don't know i think they will but uh we'll see either that or what could happen is that you could do it from here see if henry's in florida with me or i just i could go over and see them as i did the

Johnson and, um, and, uh, Mr.

Rush the last time.

Johnson and Rush at the time of the, uh, which time?

Yes, sir.

When did you see them?

At the time we...

I saw them, um... At the time we stopped the bombing?

Right.

Then at the time we started it, well, we had a meeting.

When we started.

No, I saw them when we stopped.

No, no, I'm sorry.

When we started.

You saw them on the 18th.

That's right.

Right.

Informed them.

That's right.

You could go over and see them and just give them the dope and just say it's

and so on the way this schedule is working now i i was i'm not quite clear that because there's so many messages across but henry now is pushing the hague departure off till sunday night sunday evening yes sir about the hague announcement uh uh uh you see and what about and uh remember the idea i had uh we we discussed here

whether we could have the Hague announcement and the bombing thing, I mean, lumped together.

I think, sir, if they go up, if he goes up in the evening, an announcement by Ron that he's left, just calling the wires, then in the morning,

The bombing announcement.

Is the bombing announcement in the morning, is there a purpose for that to be at that point?

What I'm thinking actually is getting, is what I'm getting, frankly, is getting that announcement moved up to so that it gets the weekend and the press and the news magazines.

But it's not, it's not indispensable.

It's just, it would be desirable.

The trouble with it is, it wouldn't actually go into effect, you see, until Monday night.

Because the agreement is it goes into effect Monday night, is that right?

Yes, that's right.

Well, 48 hours after he returns.

Ah.

So, this is what I was explaining yesterday.

So you shouldn't have too much of a lag.

That's right, because they'll ask, well, why didn't you just make it effective immediately?

So what you would say is that General Higg is leaving.

You would announce he was leaving on Sunday night.

Right, yes, sir.

Well, they'll know he's gone.

as well that Henry have a day with me in Florida, which we now plan, and with Hig before we announce we're going to stop the bombing, or otherwise it looks like we just up willy-nilly and stop it before I consulted with him.

Even though we have been consulting, you know what I mean?

It's nothing like sitting down face-to-face, they think.

That's your thought, is it?

Is that what you meant?

I think that's right.

And I mentioned this to Ron last night.

This gave him no trouble.

He thought this would be all right because the Sunday night thing would be relatively low-key.

It's sort of normal.

He's done it each time.

All right.

That won't be much of a story.

The following morning, Ron would... Well, that'll make a story, of course.

Of course.

But the following morning is when he would announce it.

Yes, sir.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Progress.

Okay.

And, of course, informing the congressmen and senators and Rogers and Laird seems to me that that practically has to be Sunday night.

I think we'll have to... Well, at least Rogers and Laird are the ones that can be trusted.

I'm thinking that we might have to get to Mr. Rogers and Mr. Laird earlier.

We're going to have great pressure.

They're going to naturally want to know, well, Henry's coming back.

What's up?

He'll be coming back Saturday.

They'll know this.

What's up?

Well, that'll be one advantage.

I'm tentatively planning to go to Florida today.

Yes, okay.

You see?

I see.

So that, you see, I don't want to call him in and tell him.

Right.

Because I don't want any argument.

You could go, you could just drop over and say the president, you see, tomorrow the announcement will come, he's coming back, and you could go over and say the president, I want you to know there's been a major breakthrough in the negotiations, but you've got to swear to God you know nothing about it.

That's right.

You could do that, couldn't you?

Yes, sir.

And this is the way we're going to handle it.

Haig's going to Saigon, and that's that.

Oh, we could probably even wait to do that until Sunday morning.

What about time?

Because Ron will have to say something about Henry's departure by about 6 in the morning tomorrow.

It will be noontime over there.

Oh, will he know by 6 in the morning that he is coming back?

Yes, sir.

So he'll have to go fairly early.

And that means it'll be running all day.

So we'll be under pressure all day from both of them, and quite logically.

Well, sure.

So your thought is... Haig has gone down to see you.

So then your thought would be to tell Rogers and Laird tomorrow, then?

I would think we'd almost have to, sir.

Well, that's my feeling.

And you'd have to tell Agnew, too.

We don't tell him a hell of a lot, just so there's been some major developments and that Haig is going off...

Haig and Henry are going to meet with the president in Florida, and then Haig is going off to Saigon.

I don't think I'd mention to them the bombing thing, would you?

Would you?

Well, we're going to have to mention it to Laird.

I see, because it'll be all right, okay.

I'm not sure how long it'll take us, but I'm sure that we'd have to give them at least 24 hours.

All right, you could tell your Rogers and Laird that I planned for that length of time.

I guess that's what you have to do.

Then we'd... No damn leaders.

I don't want any leaders informed.

Oh, no, right.

Not on Saturday and not on Sunday.

Now, what do you tell...

This is a very important point.

What do you tell two congressmen, our senators and a congressman on this court, Laird and...

I mean, Scott and Ford.

Yeah, you've met with them, have you?

No, sir.

I won't meet with them until this afternoon.

Yeah.

No, I just want to, I'll just go down to the meeting we had and, you know, indicate that if there are any developments, I'll give them a call.

And then, but let's suppose, let's suppose Sunday morning, what will you tell them?

Because I don't want them to be in a position where...

i think i can you you can't even use that he's back there have been some developments there there have been some developments and haig is going to saigon saigon and uh and that it's therefore therefore very important not to we don't want to tell them that there's been progress no and we don't want and we don't want them to say that haig is going off to saigon i think that'll be announced one before uh before they go on no he would no he wouldn't be leaving until sunday evening

I leave then, but wouldn't we announce it before then?

I see.

I would think we would.

You just say there have been some developments and the President is having a meeting on it, but without their saying anything about it, they should not characterize the developments at this point.

But it's very important, therefore, that the negotiations are underway in a serious way.

You could say that, that there have been some developments.

Serious negotiations are taking place, and there is...

trying to indicate optimism or pessimism, but there is a chance, and we don't want that chance destroyed, and that's the way I'd have them handle that.

Right, yes, sir.

How does that sound to you?

That sounds just fine, yes, sir.

Okay, you bring over a name when you get it.

I will.

All right.

Nixon phone call with Kennedy on Vietnam War and Peace Negotiations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 12, 1973

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