Conversation 036-063

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Hello.

Good morning, Mr. President.

Bill, I knew how close you were to President Johnson, and I wanted you to know that we all, of course, feel the deepest sympathy at this point for not only his family, but for his close friends.

Well, that's very, very kind of you.

I thought you might be interested to know, too, of course, I talked to Mrs. Johnson last night briefly, and...

I talked to him the day after New Year's.

I think that was the last time.

I think Bob Baldwin had talked to him since then.

It's a technical matter, but the day after New Year's I called him because I wanted to check to see what his

plans were with regard to the attending of the general, I meant the funeral, but the memorial service for President Truman.

And I'd understood he was not coming in because he had gone, as I had, out to Independence.

He said, yes, that's true, that he and Lady Burger talked about it and that they had decided not to come, that they would go there rather than coming here.

And I said, well, under the circumstances, since he wasn't, I wasn't, but if he did, I would because I thought it would look

in case of either of us was an affront, which we both agreed.

But then it was interesting to note, too, from time to time over this period of, as you can imagine, I've chatted with him on the phone and given him reports, and particularly, and he's always been very interested.

But on this occasion, he said, well, he said that right after I had announced the resumption of the talks, you recall, in Paris, and he said to me,

because I sure sympathize with you for what you're going through and my prayers are with you and everything.

And he says, I know it must be awful hard.

And I said, no, it isn't hard.

I said, you know, the main thing is, just as you did, I'm just trying to do what's right.

And the main thing is how it all comes out.

And I said, I want you to know I think it's going to come out.

And I said, as a result of the way it's going to come out, I mean, having it come out right, I said, you should know that

your place in history is going to be justified that's what i said to him the interesting thing is that and obviously uh developments may occur very sometime this week they may occur soon without naturally you you'll have to just hear about them when you hear about them but the interesting thing is as i told mrs johnson last night that that it's the great irony that

He was unable to live to see that what I told him on January the 2nd will come totally true this week.

Yeah, I'm awfully glad.

So I thought you should know that little bit of history.

Right.

And he said, he also said, he said, he said, he said, when it's over, he said, I, I certainly, he said, I know what you mean.

I can see how you have some feelings about some of these people that have been

been cutting you up.

You know, he talks.

And I said, look, they're the same people that cut you up.

They are the same.

So we had a good talk.

That's good.

I'm awfully glad, Mr. President.

I'm particularly glad that you happened to have had that particular conversation with him when you did, because my wife and I were just saying last night, we hope to heaven that he really realized before he went that this thing was coming down, you know.

Well, let me tell you, Bill, without without

and divulging anything now about how much I said to him because for obvious reasons I couldn't have said it to him without telling these clowns like Mansfield and the rest and some of our own clowns who talk just as much.

But he knew the way I talked to him that we were very confident that when he'd come out that what we had done actually was for the very purpose

bring this thing to a conclusion in other words to boil and uh and uh to bring it to conclusion and he knew that the the what we call the peace with honor in other words rather than rather than just fighting the war for our prisoners which of course ends the war for everybody uh and uh

and the right of the South Vietnamese to determine their own future.

All this was part of the... And he had very good reason to know from what I told him that it was going to work.

Now, I couldn't tell him.

I didn't, because I didn't know myself, I couldn't tell him when it would happen.

No, I realize.

But I told him that I thought it was going, that it was moving extremely well at that point.

And we expected it.

So he, before he was dead, I think he knew that

know he reads between lines and he'll tell my thing and that uh and uh as a matter of fact it was a funny thing i had made up a list of about four people he was on at one speaker mccormick a couple others you know yeah that would be informed this week or whenever this breaks down and uh i was going to call him before so that's good so anyway

Anyway, he's up there.

He's looking at it.

And I just hope to God that some of those people that... And it's mostly in his own party who just viciously cut him up.

I hope to God that...

Some of you fellows in the press, if I may candidly suggest it, and I wouldn't suggest it to me, I ask for no mercy.

I give none and ask for none.

But with him, he was so sensitive about the press, you know.

I know it.

He tried to do so much to them, for them and everything.

And then the way that they handle him and the way in his own party.

I'm not talking about the press so much, but I'm talking about his own party.

The press we all understand.

The press we understand.

That's the job of the press.

The press's job is to be, you know, is to call it like they see it.

And frankly, most of them, for reasons that we know, just didn't dig what we were trying to do.

They didn't agree with it.

But the point is, in his own party, people that he made, people that he made, didn't go down to that ranch to see him.

before and after the Democratic Convention.

That cut him to the quick.

It cut him right to the quick.

People didn't come to see him.

He never had, no president, I think, ever had so much insurrection and so much civil war on his own.

It would have changed over a period of time.

You take Herbert Hoover.

Herbert Hoover, of course, went down to a smashing defeat.

Oh, yeah.

But people went on pilgrimages, Republicans and Democrats, but particularly Republicans, for years to New York to see Herbert Hoover.

Yeah.

And with Johnson, it hadn't happened that way.

I think it would have, after this was over, over a period of time, they'd begin to have some.

But there are some people, believe me, Bill, there are some people in his party that should be damned ashamed of what they have done.

What do you think?

I understand.

For them to do it to me, I understand that.

But damn it, to do it to him when he made them and to run off from him, I couldn't understand it.

I couldn't agree more.

I have done it many times, and I don't know what I'm going to do about a farewell column

Whether I repeat it, I may, but I certainly, I agree with you, and I thought it was the most appalling performance.

I don't know whether you saw that.

I hope to God he didn't see that damn Harris poll yesterday morning.

You happened to see it about who put confidence in what presidents and so on.

To tell you the truth, I don't read the damn polls.

No, I hope you won't.

I always wanted him not to, and I hope you won't.

I don't read either.

Well, I read everything, but I...

have to read that people read, but as far as anything that is personal, that's the point.

Never read anything personal about yourself.

Don't let it get to you.

Because when it's personal, put anything on issues, then you've got to know, because you've got to know what the folks are thinking.

It'll come out, and I appreciate your good columns, and I'll appreciate them even when they're not good.

There will be.

I know you call them like you see them.

You take care of yourself, will you?

Oh, I'm fine.

Don't let any of this stuff get to you because it got to him too much, as you know.

It'll never get to me.

Good.

I know these clowns.

Good, good.

You take care.

Thank you.