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Conversation 037-038

TapeTape 37StartFriday, March 2, 1973 at 8:28 PMEndFriday, March 2, 1973 at 8:33 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the ongoing hostage crisis in Sudan involving Black September terrorists, noting the conflicting and fragmentary reports regarding the status of the American diplomats. Despite uncertainty about the hostages' fate, Nixon reaffirmed his administration’s hardline stance against negotiating ransom demands or granting concessions to terrorists. The pair also addressed the logistics of official notifications and discussed the potential need for improved safety and insurance protocols for American officials stationed in high-risk global regions.

Sudan hostage crisisBlack SeptemberForeign policyTerrorismDiplomatic securityRansom demands
AudioNARA Description

On March 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 8:28 pm to 8:33 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 037-038 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 37-38

Date: March 2, 1973
Time: 8:28 pm-8:33 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Henry A. Kissinger talked with the President.

       Sudan hostages [Black September]
             -Uncertainty of reports
                      -Killings
                      -Contradictory information
                      -Belgian diplomats
                      -American diplomats
             -Motive of Arab terrorists
                      -Credibility
                      -Determination
              -Administration’s statement
              -Cables to families of diplomats
                      -Timing
              -Official notification
                      -Lowering of flags
                      -Muhamed al-Baghir Ahmed

******************************************************************************

[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-013. Segment declassified on 12/20/2017. Archivist: DR]
[National Security]
[037-038-w001]
[Duration: 2s]
                                              - 26 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                         (rev. Sept-09)

       Sudan hostages [Black September]
              -Official notification
                      -Muhamed al-Baghir Ahmed
                              -Comments regarding Intelligence Quotient [IQ]

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       Sudan hostages [Black September]
              -Killings
              -Administration’s position on handling of terrorists
                      -Ransom demands
                             -Sirhan Sirhan
                      -Public release of information

       Insurance for officials in dangerous areas
              -Sudan
              -Libya

       Thailand
              -Israeli hostages
              -Bangkok

       Sudan Hostages [Black September]
             -Administration position on ransom
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

No.
Mr. President, Dr. Kissinger calling you.
Yes.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Mr. President.
Yeah, Henry.
Information is just very fragmentary.
The major who, the Sudanese major who brought out the information now admits he didn't see anybody.
And now he admits that he, now he claims that the Belgian was alive.
But he thinks, but he says the Americans are dead.
Well, that's what he says, but now there's one, it is even possible, Mr. President, that nobody was killed.
Really?
Well, I wouldn't want to hold that out, but I would have thought that if these Arabs wanted to establish their credibility...
I mean, why would they kill the Americans in order to... That's why I wondered why they would kill us and not the Belgium.
No, they would do it to increase their credibility.
And want us to squeeze the others.
Towards the remaining hostages.
Right.
To do that, it would be better for them to exhibit a body.
Yes, and also to...
keep them alive in order to keep squeezing us well if they keep them alive people might think they might wouldn't kill anybody i can imagine that they'd kill somebody just to show they can do it you know that they are that they're determined but then it would be one would think in their interest to produce the body
Well, in any event, I guess we've got to go ahead.
We've already put our statement out and lowered the flags and all the rest, and we just let that go, huh?
I think we should let that go, but I'm holding up on the cables a few hours, Mr. President.
I see.
Yeah, because the cables, you mean to the families?
Yes, yes, yes.
My God, we've already ordered the lowering of the flags.
Is that a good idea?
We were given official information from the Sudanese government, Mr. President.
So we'll go ahead and lower the flags and thank God.
We were told by the vice president of the Sudan.
Yeah, yeah.
that this is happening that this happened that he in turn and now turns out was told by a major yeah who had been negotiating with him well i just prayed it true but i think the probability is that they're dead yeah that they're dead but there is this slight clement yeah and we'll keep you informed before in any event
We are doing exactly the right thing and taking the hard line on it, Henry.
We can't give an inch on this.
Absolutely not, Mr. President.
We can't do it.
We can't do it.
Nobody can.
There is no... Do you agree?
I mean, first of all, there wasn't anything...
we could do right now there was nothing we could do to their their ransom demands nothing you would have done you wouldn't have yielded anyway but this wasn't the case where you had any choice but no they didn't say give us a hundred thousand dollars they said give us siran or whatever the hell his name is siran was just one of many requests their big request is to get those terrorists out that's right and we have no control over that
and we have absolutely let's be damn sure though that we get that all that out henry in there and that crap that's being written about and said about this okay absolutely absolutely yep okay well incidentally uh give us some thought and put your staff to work on this as to what we may have to do with regard to some sort of an insurance policy or something with regard to ambassadors and critical posts like this what do you think
Well, let me look into that.
You see what I mean?
I just wonder if we can just frankly expect these poor bastards to be over there.
Not that that pays for their lives.
At least let's show that we're caring about it and that we're...
And, of course, when a man goes there, he's got to know, knowing he takes the risk.
Well, of course, the Sudan itself was a fairly quiet place.
This is a bunch of Arabs who had happened in Libya.
But that part of the world is always dangerous.
Of course, on the other hand, it happened to the Israelis down in Southeast Asia.
Yeah, in Bangkok.
But they got out.
I know, but it happened.
The Tide said the Arabs had been in Thailand for too long.
They got soft.
Isn't that something?
Yeah.
I said, how long is that?
They said five days.
Yeah.
That's the tie reaction, as you want to express.
Yeah.
Well, anyway.
I'll keep you posted.
If there's a, you know, you follow up, and if there's anything I need to know, let me know.
If not, we just write it through.
Right.
But we're going to stand firm.
We're not going to give an inch on this business of paying something for them.
No way.
No, we can't.
No way.
Okay.
Right.
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