{"conversationCode":"037-074","tapeNumber":37,"conversationNumber":74,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-037-074","startDateTime":"1973-03-09T19:46:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-03-09T19:53:00.000Z","startDate":"9-Mar-1973","startTime":"2:46 PM","endDate":"9-Mar-1973","endTime":"2:53 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Kissinger, Henry A.; Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On March 9, 1973, Henry A. Kissinger and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:46 pm and 2:53 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 037-074 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 37-74\n\nDate: March 9, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 2:46 pm and 2:53 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nHenry A. Kissinger talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n[See Conversation No. 418-5F]\n\f                                               - 48 -\n\n                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY\n\n       John T. Downey's release\n              -Message from People’s Republic of China [PRC]\n              -Announcement\n              -Release of other prisoners\n                     -Lt. Cmdr. Robert J. Flynn\n                     -Maj. Philip E. Smith\n                     -Ziegler’s reaction\n              -Appeal to Cheu En-Lai\n                     -Illness of Downey’s mother\n\n       President's schedule\n              -William P. Rogers\n              -Announcement\n                      -Timing\n                      -Wording","filename":["037-074.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Kissinger, Henry A.","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"037-073","nextCode":"037-075","transcript":[{"start":0.32,"end":0.74,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.76,"end":3.72,"text":"This is your Mr. Ziegler."},{"start":3.74,"end":4.14,"text":"Ron?"},{"start":4.54,"end":5.58,"text":"Go ahead."},{"start":5.6,"end":6.88,"text":"Ron, I'm with the President."},{"start":6.9,"end":10.91,"text":"We've just had word from the Chinese that they're releasing Downey on the 12th."},{"start":11.31,"end":11.65,"text":"Of what?"},{"start":13.25,"end":13.45,"text":"Of March."},{"start":13.47,"end":14.45,"text":"Oh, that's fantastic."},{"start":16.09,"end":18.81,"text":"And we would like you to announce it this afternoon."},{"start":19.03,"end":19.29,"text":"I will."},{"start":19.67,"end":28.76,"text":"And they're also releasing the prisoners Flynn and Smith on the 15th."},{"start":29.22,"end":30.22,"text":"Oh, my God."},{"start":31.49,"end":53.32,"text":"When you announced the Downey thing, you ought to say that this was on the basis of a direct appeal by the Prime Minister, uh, due to the illness of his mother, President."},{"start":58.28,"end":58.42,"text":"Uh-huh."},{"start":58.44,"end":58.62,"text":"Okay."},{"start":60.26,"end":66.35,"text":"Yeah, suggest to the President, Henry, just listen to me for a moment, would you?"},{"start":67.07,"end":74.74,"text":"He's due to do a photo opportunity at 3.30, and he'll be sitting out with Rogers, but that doesn't matter."},{"start":75.88,"end":78.38,"text":"He could say something about that at the photo opportunity."},{"start":80.22,"end":81.21,"text":"What do you think would be better?"},{"start":81.27,"end":81.71,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":81.83,"end":85.37,"text":"I think you should announce it first, and then something more can be said."},{"start":87.98,"end":88.68,"text":"Okay, fine."},{"start":88.7,"end":89.73,"text":"I'll do it whatever way you want."},{"start":89.75,"end":94.99,"text":"I just wanted to give him that ability to say we have just heard or Dr. Kissinger just informed me."},{"start":95.22,"end":96.22,"text":"Okay, okay, okay."},{"start":96.4,"end":97.98,"text":"I just wanted to raise that."},{"start":100.22,"end":103.59,"text":"When you come back over, I'd like to put together the words with you."},{"start":105.01,"end":105.81,"text":"I'll wait for your call."},{"start":106.71,"end":106.91,"text":"Good."},{"start":107.61,"end":107.81,"text":"All right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"Henry Kissinger informs Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler that the People's Republic of China has agreed to release American prisoner John T. Downey on March 12, as well as prisoners Robert J. Flynn and Philip E. Smith on March 15. Kissinger instructs Ziegler to announce the news publicly, framing Downey's release as a result of a direct humanitarian appeal to Chou En-lai regarding the prisoner's mother's illness. The two discuss potential strategies for the President to comment on the development during an upcoming photo opportunity with William Rogers.","topics":["People's Republic of China","Prisoners of War","John T. Downey","Diplomatic Relations","Public Relations","Chou En-lai"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:15:17.505Z"},"topicSlugs":["peoples-republic-of-china","prisoners-of-war","john-t-downey","diplomatic-relations","public-relations","chou-en-lai"],"audioDurationSec":115,"audioFiles":[{"file":"037-074.mp3","bytes":841728,"durationSec":115.07,"bitrate":58521,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:30.084Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.119Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/037-074.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/037-074","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/37/conversation-037-074","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}