Conversation 037-082

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Hello.

Mr. President, Mr. Ehrlichman returning your call.

Yeah.

All right.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

John Ehrlichman.

Yeah, John.

I wanted to tell you that, sorry you came in on Sunday because probably because of that thing tomorrow, but I was going to... No, I have issues and answers today.

Oh, good.

Well, that's good.

I'll get up.

I just, I got a little bummed.

I want, I didn't realize I had a couple of appointments Monday afternoon, so what we'll do is to put the meeting off to the same time Tuesday at 3 o'clock.

Well, if that's right with you.

It may not be necessary for you to be in that meeting.

If you don't want to be, I...

I'd just soon be because I'd like to lay the rod to them on...

the point of these uh surpluses and storages and all that sort of thing right well if you have no objection uh we'll have them in monday morning and uh and go over the ground and then what i'd and then what i'd like for you to do is to go over the ground and say i want to meet tuesday afternoon at three o'clock and i want to have not just tell i want them to tell me what they have in mind in other words i want butts to say all right what are you going to do about your surpluses i want gsa

For example, Elliot Richardson, he can say, now, damn it, there's got to be a lot of stuff.

Well, we can broaden this, then, to include defense.

I think it should include defense.

It should include GSA.

It should include the stockpile fellow.

And it should obviously include butts.

Now, John, we know and you know and I know from what Dunlop said that there's got to be an awful lot of surpluses around this place.

I mean, that's not just in food, but in other areas.

That's what we can weed out Monday then.

If you could weed it out, but then tell them that rather than have me come in and say, do it, they are to come in and they get 24 hours.

How does that sound to you?

It's better.

And rather than just running in and preaching to them.

Right.

And then at 3 o'clock, I want to go around the table and say, what are you doing?

How much have you got?

And we want a real thing.

Good.

Well, good luck on your issues and answers.

Oh, thank you very much.

Say, I sat between two of our POWs last night at the gridiron.

Did you really?

And they are magnificent.

My God.

Are they really?

Oh, what they have done.

Well, of course, I've met two, as you know, and it just really moves you to tears, doesn't it?

he just went through the tortures of the damned he was down in the south and didn't go into a regular prison camp if he was the bc that was the worst thing yeah worse than death holds his chin high my god he's just he's just magnificent right it's amazing how they do it i don't know now you just wonder how in the world he was in solitary for six years i was up i was very

I'm pleased on two scores.

Bob told me that first that McGovern had the good sense to do well because we want him to stay up there, you know.

Sure.

But the second point is even more that that John Phillips-Susan number, that must have been very moving, wasn't it?

It really was.

And these guys, well, the gridiron going perhaps just a bit, you know, it's an interesting thing.

I was thinking back to our talk with Nooby Noyes, just a bit,

back to uh to send more well how it used to be you know look i know the gridiron in the old days in the eisenharders i mean and you know they have that famous song the gridiron uh blows but it never burns or something like that but in recent years it's been so vicious that it burns yeah

And a lot of the old graders are very, very sorry about that because it's not fun anymore.

Matter of fact, two or three of them came up to me and said, I don't think we were too hard on you this time.

Of course, I don't care.

I know, but they have it on their mind.

You see, it's very interesting, the mentality.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's good.

I was glad to see, incidentally, that you're...

Your thing got a good ride.

It was a lead story in the Times, as you know.

And the dagger in the heart, you know, the phrases, that's what we get.

That's what we need, isn't it?

Right.

They carry them.

The Post, of course, blanked us out.

I understand.

And I suppose that's where you wanted it heard, but because of the damn congressman.

But nevertheless...

Nevertheless, you know how it is.

CBS carried it well.

CBS carried it well, and the others noted it.

But to have the lead in the Times is not insignificant.

But the Post blanks it out because it's not to their interest.

That's right.

That sort of thing.

And that'll be useful to us.

I can, two, three months from now, cite that.

You know, the fact that here was the president taking a position on 15 bills, and because the Post disagreed with it, they wouldn't print it.

That's right.

Use it.

Use it today.

Well, I...

If they ask...

I don't want to give them a chance to repair it.

I'd like to let it set, as a matter of fact.

I see, I see.

So let's let that ride for a little bit, and then we can use it again.

You know, it's quite interesting when people wonder whether radio talks are good for them.

When you have something to say.

Sure.

Did you notice how that did set here?

I'm looking at all three papers here right now.

I've got them all out in front of me, and it's just right up there.

Yeah.

It's beautiful.

Did you see the Gallup poll?

No, I didn't.

In the Post today?

No, no.

Most important problems facing the nation today.

High cost of living is one.

Drugs is two.

Crime and lawlessness is three.

Yeah.

High cost of living.

I noticed U.S. News had a piece on that, too, about their disgruntlement about it.

But curiously enough, not blaming the federal government all that much, but blaming the spending and the rest.

Some way they seem to feel it.

But that's the way it goes.

Well, let's keep, but on the crime thing, and if you could, whenever you can turn and get a little stuff in on that.

I think I can write that today.

The idea being that on all of this, that we have, we have compassion.

We want, for example, we want to improve the prisons and correctional institutions.

But as you will have noted, I struck out about

two or three hundred words going on and on and on about the Jaffe office.

We should do the Jaffe office, but we shouldn't talk about it.

I get you.

You know, don't you agree?

What I mean is people, people, people.

Passion in here has got passion for the victims.

That's right.

Incidentally, let me ask, if this isn't keeping you from your program, let me ask you one other thing.

With regard to noise,

it was very good to talk to him the problem i just i wondered at the end i mean we always of course at the children but i wonder if rather than us being i mean sure the cold thing and all that he senses but you know and it was very interesting to note if you read through everything he really is saying that what we call the new majority that it is basically

a bad group of people, and that we should not appeal to those bad instincts, but appeal to the good instincts of the good people.

Am I wrong on that or not?

That's the message.

That's the message, that they have base instincts, and that the president, as leader of the nation, must bring them to overcome their base instincts.

But the point is, too...

as far as the instincts are concerned, then who has the good instincts?

Basically, the people who either supported McGovern or who would have if he hadn't have been so nice.

Yeah.

Is that right?

I think that's right.

Or am I wrong?

I don't know.

That's exactly what he's saying.

In other words, the old establishment.

Yeah.

Yep.

Although, but he's an awful nice guy.

He's a sweet guy.

Yeah, he really is.

And he wants to help.

And he is right, too, on the compassion thing.

I don't know how you get it across.

Well, I thought we have tried and tried.

You know, I deliberately stuck a little needle in about, which is true if they ever interviewed the personal staff here at the White House.

They hated Kennedy.

Johnson...

They liked him because he gave them gifts, but Kennedy just treated them like scum.

One of the boys, we get this through other sources, they bring in a plate of food and he just slammed the whole plate down on the floor.

You know, I mean, there was some terrible arrogance, you know.

Well, he's undoubtedly as privy to a lot of that stuff as fellows around this town get to be.

But, you know, when they talk about the blacks...

The personal relationship is terribly important, and that's something we don't get across.

I don't know why, but... You know what I mean?

When I say we don't, you know why.

Hell, the point is, the press doesn't use it.

Well, that's what you brought out, what you brought out with regard.

I'd forgotten.

You know, John, it wasn't just New Orleans, but I had at least eight meetings in the Oval Office.

That's right.

And I stood there, and I talked to them, and I worked with them.

Well, it was very interesting.

Now, last night, Walter Washington...

And Vernon Jordan made a big show of coming over and talking with me behind the head table, up there in front of the whole press establishment.

But that isn't given credence.

And it was almost to the exclusion of Hubert Humphrey and the others who were up there.

That's a signal, but it's a signal they don't like and they won't pick up.

So, well, how we go through, well, good luck on your program.

Okay.

But you can see what I mean on the food thing.

We have got, we are probably doing everything we can, but we're saying the wrong thing.

We've got to get, that's one of the things I've got to, I've got to get butts off of this Grin and Barrett line, too, you know, with regard to the consumer.

He's right about the things he's saying factually.

He's correct.

Totally right.

It comes through as sort of an avaricious, special interest kind of an orientation.

Well, it comes through as far as the consumer is concerned, is grin and bear it.

And you can't say that.

You've got to say, look, it's too damn high.

The hamburger's dry, and we're doing something about it.

And the president's kicking the ass around here.

In other words, put me in the position, frankly, kicking the farmer a little.

Don't you agree?

Okay, I'll do that.

And kicking the bureaucracy.

Okay.