{"conversationCode":"037-109","tapeNumber":37,"conversationNumber":109,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-037-109","startDateTime":"1973-03-14T21:34:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-03-14T21:36:00.000Z","startDate":"14-Mar-1973","startTime":"4:34 PM","endDate":"14-Mar-1973","endTime":"4:36 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Dean, John W., III; Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On March 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, John W. Dean, III, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 4:34 pm to 4:36 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 037-109 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 37-109\n\f                                            - 79 -\n\n                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY\n\nDate: March 14, 1973\nTime: 4:34 pm-4:36 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with John W. Dean, III. The President and Ronald L. Ziegler conferred\nduring the conversation.\n\n[See Conversation No. 419-34C]\n\n       Watergate\n             -Comments on agencies' responsiveness\n             -Congressional access to Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] raw files\n                   -James O. Eastland\n                           -Judicial hearings\n                   -John J. McClellan\n                           -Joseph Valachi case\n                   -Harry Dexter White case\n                   -J. Edgar Hoover's policy\n                           -Public statement by the administration","filename":["037-109.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Dean, John W., III","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"037-108","nextCode":"037-110","transcript":[{"start":0,"end":1,"speaker":"Operator","text":"All right, sir."},{"start":1,"end":2,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Who is this?"},{"start":2,"end":5,"speaker":"Operator","text":"Dean. Thank you, just a moment."},{"start":5,"end":23,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Can't get action around here unless you kick 'em in the ass. [chuckles] This business, you know, of these agencies taking two or three days to get a response to a simple little question like that. Now they know what the answer is. Hello?"},{"start":23,"end":26,"speaker":"Ziegler","text":"Shake 'em up a little."},{"start":26,"end":27,"speaker":"Operator","text":"Mr. Dean, sir."},{"start":27,"end":29,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Okay. Yeah."},{"start":29,"end":47,"speaker":"Dean","text":"The, uh, unless I get a counter information upon further checking, the the answer is no, there have been no formal uh submissions of FBI material like this ever before. Have however, been informal."},{"start":47,"end":59,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"In other words, what they mean is if they have never formally turned over raw files to a committee, though informally they have taken the files up and shown them to Jim Eastland, when he, for example, is conducting a judge, that I understand."},{"start":59,"end":66,"speaker":"Dean","text":"Yeah. And they have let McClellan and his investigative committee come down and look at, uh for example, the Valachi case."},{"start":66,"end":69,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"That's right. They can look they can look at files informally."},{"start":69,"end":76,"speaker":"Dean","text":"Apparently so, or in the Harry Dexter White case, uh, files available that time."},{"start":76,"end":76,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":76,"end":80,"speaker":"Dean","text":"But, uh, as a formal turning over as in this instance, there is"},{"start":80,"end":88,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Yeah. And so in other words, we have been, Mr. Dean has been very forthcoming in turning over uh information of this type to a committee."},{"start":88,"end":94,"speaker":"Dean","text":"Now the committee really shouldn't use it then, should it? It shouldn't put it in a record, they shouldn't."},{"start":94,"end":105,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"That's the point. What I'm getting at is this: I'm going to say that it was always Mr. Hoover's practice never to turn over formal, formally to a committee, because he knew this, and he would only do it on a, on, on a basis of uh total security"},{"start":105,"end":107,"speaker":"Dean","text":"for the purpose of conducting investigations and so forth. And there has never been a leak"},{"start":107,"end":111,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"And never been and there's never been a leak of those, of those things before."},{"start":111,"end":112,"speaker":"Dean","text":"That's right."},{"start":112,"end":117,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"And it's it's, uh, therefore, we think that this should be reevaluated in terms of that, huh?"},{"start":117,"end":118,"speaker":"Dean","text":"Mhm."},{"start":118,"end":121,"speaker":"Nixon","text":"Okay, well, keep him scared over there."},{"start":121,"end":122,"speaker":"Dean","text":"Yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, John Dean, and Ron Ziegler discussed the administration's policy on providing FBI raw files to congressional committees. Nixon expressed frustration with agency responsiveness and emphasized the need to \"shake them up.\" Dean clarified that while formal submissions of raw files were unprecedented, informal access had been granted in past cases, such as the Valachi and Harry Dexter White cases, without leaks. The discussion centered on whether congressional committees should be allowed to formally receive and record such sensitive information.","topics":["Watergate","FBI files","Congressional access","John Dean","Ronald Ziegler","Richard Nixon","Agency responsiveness","Informal file access"],"generatedAt":"2026-10-27T16:45:37.774Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","fbi-files","congressional-access","john-w-dean-iii","ronald-l-ziegler","richard-nixon","agency-responsiveness","informal-file-access"],"audioDurationSec":126,"audioFiles":[{"file":"037-109.mp3","bytes":925696,"durationSec":125.71,"bitrate":58911,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:30.084Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.123Z","transcriptCreatedAt":"2026-10-27T16:21:17.087Z","transcriptModel":"google/gemini-3.8-flash","transcriptSource":"audio-llm","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/037-109.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/037-109","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/037/conversation-037-109","catalogNaId":417195351,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417195351","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}