Nixon phone call with Dean on Watergate and John J. Sirica

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Hello.

Yes, sir.

Any report on the meeting with the client east?

There was a report, a good report, a very successful meeting.

He laid it out.

Who did he meet with?

Exactly what he would do.

And he said they didn't balk an inch.

Who did he talk to?

Irvin and... Irvin and Baker and both counsel.

And they bought it.

One, that there would be a summary report, a synopsis report,

which would be issued to them only, not for any other members of their committee, would be for investigative purposes only, could not be put in the record, could not be displayed publicly in any way.

And if they had any questions about the synopsis report, then they could come down to the Bureau, those four, and look at the raw file they wanted to look at if they contested something that was in the synopsis.

That was it.

Zero.

other words this is a report that would be given by gray by gray right um they put out in fact there's a press release that irvin put out that said that they had worked out a satisfactory arrangement with the department of justice to receive the necessary information from the fbi in a way that would protect any innocent persons from damage and that's uh i went out this afternoon and

Mm-hmm.

We got a question, Vigor got a question, press office, was the range satisfactory with us?

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

So that, again, that's the spirit of cooperation, turning over information, and no problem at all.

Well, you should go forward in working with Dick Moore and others with regard to the matter of...

getting sort of a general statement that might be prepared, I mean, to be given to me after the court sentences, you see.

I don't know whether we will want to use it or not, but in order to know, we've got to see what it could be, you see.

I just learned late this afternoon that Sirica is going to definitely sentence on next week from today, plans to give a speech from the bench.

at that time, that the government is recommending no specific term in years for any of the defendants, rather prison sentences for all of them, but not a specified term of years.

So the whole thing is in Syrica.

After the jury?

Then who determines the term of years?

Syrica himself will.

Oh.

Mm-hmm.

Then when will you announce that?

That'll be on Friday, at least for the five that pleaded.

He may not sentence the two that are on appeal.

So he'll announce the sentences a week from Friday?

That's correct.

A week from today.

I had a long conversation with Dick Moore just this evening.

I just arrived home, and Dick and I have really been talking all this time about this whole thing.

And there is a degree of impossibility

in writing a sort of let's hang it all out report without creating problems that would open up a new grand jury, without creating problems that would cause difficulty for some who have already testified.

I've caveated some of these to Dick.

Dick doesn't possess all the knowledge I have.

It's a particularly difficult assignment for Dick.

Yes.

In fact, I told him, I said, it might be to your advantage, Dick, to write from your basis.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you could look it over.

Right.

We plan to meet tomorrow and see what we can crank out.

Well, it's something that is worth perhaps doing in terms of the—

Well, frankly, what could be helpful, if it could be worked out, is just something that we're, in the most general terms, just virtually saying what I might even say in answer to a press conference question, but in more general terms that investigation has been conducted and we find this and that and the other thing and whack, just like that.

You see what I mean?

Rather than going into the specifics of who did what to whom.

You see what I mean?

I do.

So that people could say, well... Not a total stonewall.

No, no, no.

And not supposed to be a total answer.

Right.

But simply saying, well, the president has finally said, now that it's over, this is it.

And after this is over, we can now say that this person, these people were not involved, and et cetera, these were, and...

And I don't know.

But at least think in those terms to see if something could be worked out.

In very general terms, I realize the problems of getting too specific, because then you do open up the possibility of, oh, why didn't you say that?

Why didn't you say that?

But you just put it in very general terms, you see.

I don't know.

You think that's possible?

It's going to be tough, but I think it's a good exercise and a drill that is absolutely essential we do.

Yeah, that's the point.

The exercise is important.

It sharpens thinking and it... Find out what our vulnerabilities are and where we are and so forth and so on.

I would... Maybe there will be some time when...

I should possibly report a little fuller than I really have, so you really can appreciate in full some of the vulnerable points and where they lead to.

That's right.

I don't think that should be a written document right now.

Oh, by no means.

No, I don't need a damn written document about any of that.

No.

I'm just speaking of a document that is put out.

A public document.

Yeah.

Right.

Which you sort of report, perhaps, which we could then deliver to Irvin, you know?

It's going to be tough, but I say it certainly won't be... Just sort of a general thing, and very general, very general, you know, but by all means laying off of all... Don't get into the, well, we investigated this, we investigated that, we saw this, we deny this, we support this, and so forth.

Lay off of all that.

I have in mind just sort of basically so that it can be said that something was presented that I...

have seen or that, you know what I mean, so that my reiterated statements from time to time that, well, no one in the White House staff is involved have some basis, you see.

A lot of my conclusions were based

on the fact that there was not a scintilla of evidence in the investigation that led anywhere to the White House.

There's nothing in the FBI file that indicates anybody in the White House is involved.

There's nothing in what was presented before the grand jury indicating White House involvement.

Well, just saying some of those things could be helpful.

That's right.

See, it could be helpful, and then we just put that out and then let the committee try to prove otherwise.

And I understand that they will not get the grand jury minutes, which is good.

Because the grand jury is more thorough than the FBI.

The committee is starting 10 paces behind.

And Irvin does not, I'm told, have a total disposition for what he's doing.

He just doesn't relish it.

He wants more things.

He's more excited about the confrontation on executive privilege, I think, than he is about what else he might find.

We would welcome that, wouldn't we?

We'd love that.

Well, so would we.

I mean, let's have it, particularly if it's on you.

Oh, no, he won't have it on you.

I don't think he'll bite for that.

It's Chapin, huh?

Chapin or Coulson.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

I think that the...

Other part of the report that we probably can put out with even greater detail than, say, Watergate is Segretti.

That I would like.

You see, that would put us in the very forthcoming posture.

We could point out that the one case has now been determined by the courts and that we have nothing to indicate that the White House is involved.

Now, second, with regard to Segretti, let's lay it all out.

Here it is.

Now, sure, it's a little embarrassing.

The problem there.

It's nothing evil.

It's nothing... Well, it's less embarrassing what's been charged in the innuendo.

That's right.

And, of course, I realize the major problem there is the financing, but even that.

But that's going to have to be answered for before...

It's going to come out.

That's right.

So you... Get it out.

Yep.

That's right.

So you can think about it, okay?

All right, sir.

All right.

Nixon phone call with Dean on Watergate and John J. Sirica

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 17, 1973

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