{"conversationCode":"038-019","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":19,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-019","startDateTime":"1973-04-14T13:54:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-14T13:56:00.000Z","startDate":"14-Apr-1973","startTime":"8:54 AM","endDate":"14-Apr-1973","endTime":"8:56 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Richardson, Elliot L.;","description":"On April 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Elliot L. Richardson talked on the telephone from 8:54 am to 8:56 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-019 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-19\n\nDate: April 14, 1973\nTime: 8:54 am - 8:56 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Elliot L. Richardson.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 428-19A]\n\n     Weather\n\n     Base closings\n          -New York Times story\n          -Savings in Defense Department budget\n\f                                              -14-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                            Conversation No. 38-19 (cont’d)\n\n                 -Bureau of the Budget\n                 -Public relations strategy\n                 -Liberals","filename":["038-019.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Richardson, Elliot L."],"prevCode":"038-018","nextCode":"038-020","transcript":[{"start":0.96,"end":1.42,"text":"Hello."},{"start":1.46,"end":2.18,"text":"Dr. Richardson."},{"start":3.94,"end":4.92,"text":"Good morning, Mr. President."},{"start":5.46,"end":5.76,"text":"Hi, Elliot."},{"start":5.99,"end":6.07,"text":"Hi."},{"start":6.08,"end":7.29,"text":"Isn't it, though, I hope you get out."},{"start":7.77,"end":18.34,"text":"I noticed a story in, I think, the Times or something saying that Richardson, you know, had been coming in going to be a hero, closing all these bases, and then all of a sudden he's a bum."},{"start":19.42,"end":24.77,"text":"A thought that occurred to me that I hope you will use directly."},{"start":25.45,"end":29.63,"text":"Why don't you tote up from the Bureau of the Budget the cost of..."},{"start":30.15,"end":58.34,"text":"of retaining the 45 bases we're closing saying in effect that those who would open the bases would add three billion dollars or five billion dollars to the military budget or one billion and a half whatever it is my point maybe it's 800 million if you put in a round number in other words if you put it in terms of each piece you get murdered but if you put it in terms that you see with all this uh business let's cut the defense budget the point is that uh here"},{"start":58.98,"end":60.32,"text":"You guys can't have it both ways."},{"start":61.92,"end":62.42,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":62.46,"end":63.72,"text":"I think that's a very good idea."},{"start":63.76,"end":70.51,"text":"I don't know what the number is, but I'm sure that when you add 45, and that's it, I just wouldn't do it on an annual basis."},{"start":70.53,"end":73.42,"text":"I'd say that it would... Well, 400 million."},{"start":73.74,"end":74.86,"text":"Well, it's 400 million per year."},{"start":74.94,"end":75.78,"text":"But if you..."},{"start":76.56,"end":77.52,"text":"But if you put it up..."},{"start":77.62,"end":79.85,"text":"Multiply it by, you know, five years."},{"start":80.45,"end":83.03,"text":"Yeah, you could say $2 billion over the next five years."},{"start":83.33,"end":83.47,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":83.49,"end":84.33,"text":"Something like that, okay?"},{"start":84.35,"end":84.51,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":85.19,"end":87.18,"text":"Well, you probably already said it, but I..."},{"start":87.36,"end":97.65,"text":"I think that's right."},{"start":97.73,"end":108.5,"text":"I think in fact that it will help to underscore the fact that this really is a tight defense budget."},{"start":108.52,"end":110.03,"text":"Right, right."},{"start":110.22,"end":119.88,"text":"Right, and that's a very good way to get at it, to say, well, now this talk about this basis indicates that we are submitting a very lean budget."},{"start":119.9,"end":129.86,"text":"We've closed 45 bases, and some of those, including some of the libs who have the districts, you know, the unilateral disarmers, they don't want their base closed."},{"start":130.34,"end":130.56,"text":"Right."},{"start":130.58,"end":131.42,"text":"They want their cake cooked."},{"start":131.62,"end":134.37,"text":"Anyway, I just didn't want you to take the heat in their show."},{"start":134.43,"end":136.32,"text":"I know you'll know how to kick them back a little."},{"start":136.34,"end":137.16,"text":"Will you do that?"},{"start":137.18,"end":137.72,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":137.9,"end":138.94,"text":"Thanks a lot for the call."},{"start":139.23,"end":139.63,"text":"All right."},{"start":139.65,"end":140.51,"text":"Have a good weekend."},{"start":140.53,"end":140.65,"text":"Bye."},{"start":140.67,"end":140.99,"text":"Thanks."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Secretary of Defense Elliot L. Richardson discussed a public relations strategy to counter criticism regarding recent military base closures. Nixon advised Richardson to quantify the long-term budgetary savings, framing the closures as evidence of a lean defense budget to pressure liberal critics who simultaneously demand defense cuts and the retention of local bases. Richardson agreed to implement this messaging strategy to highlight the hypocrisy of those opposing the administration's fiscal austerity.","topics":["Defense budget","Base closings","Public relations strategy","Military spending","Fiscal policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:29:15.604Z"},"topicSlugs":["defense-budget","base-closings","public-relations-strategy","military-spending","fiscal-policy"],"audioDurationSec":148,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-019.mp3","bytes":4737024,"durationSec":147.91,"bitrate":256216,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.436Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-019.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-019","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-019","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}