On April 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 11:02 pm to 11:16 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-034 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello?
Yes, sir.
Well, you didn't stay very long.
No, I sure didn't.
I got out as quick as I could.
Right.
I stayed through it.
Yeah, yeah.
But it came off very well.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's a...
I was awfully glad that they had the Mike Kerb group, because I think that was...
Gave him a good lift.
Right.
Well, it gave him a good lift, and dedicating the song to you and the comment about Pat, I thought was just great.
Right, right.
And your remarks were just right to do a little...
little gag at the beginning and then hit the straight piece, which they gave you the lead on with the theme.
Yeah.
And, uh, that wasn't bad.
Not nearly as bad as the cigar.
So, uh, that came off reasonably well.
In fact, he was pretty good.
It was all right.
And, uh— I guess, uh, BB's over here overnight, and I just told him about the Mitchell thing, so he wouldn't get a surprise.
Yeah.
Naturally can't believe it.
It's one of those things.
It's hard to believe.
One thing that occurs to me, Bob, is this, as I reflect a little on Magruder's stuff.
I'll be damned if I don't think that some of that could be exaggerated, but I just don't know.
I don't know.
I can't tell.
He's been so—he's obviously flailing around like a wild man at the present time.
No, no, he's not really.
I think he was earlier trying to—he was frantic, but once he figured out where he was going, I think he's— He thinks that this is what he remembers now.
He could not—I'm not sure that his interpretations on various things could be interpreted either way, you know, like his interpretation on Dean, his interpretation on Strachan, for example.
That's right.
I just don't know how it's going to come out, though.
That's the whole point.
And I just don't know.
When I was serious, when I said to John at the end there, I said, God damn it, all these guys that participated in raising the money and so forth have got to stick to the line that they did not raise this money to obstruct justice.
Well, I sure didn't think they were.
I didn't think they were, and I don't think they did, with maybe some exceptions.
Right, right.
Of course, I suppose there they will say that, like McCarter said, that was a purpose, but that somebody told him that, that didn't mean anything.
And the question, of course, is there is Liddy and the others, but we shall see.
And it's the word of the felons against the word of the men that raise the money.
That's right.
And you don't know how much will come out in what way either.
At least I think now we pretty much know what the worst is.
I don't know what the hell else they could have that's any worse.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
I don't know that unless somebody's got
that somebody signed or some goddamn thing, but that I doubt.
Well, it doesn't appear that there is such a thing.
I mean, there's been no hint of that.
What's in here is all stuff that has been hinted at.
It goes further than what was known in some areas.
Obviously, it's totally consistent, basically, with what everything John has developed.
Let me ask you this.
I wonder if it isn't not only fair, but in our interest for either you or John, without going into too much detail, to fill him in on Magruder.
I mean, having in mind Coulson could— I'm telling you.
Coulson.
I mean, we have no interest, you know what I mean?
couldn't get his ass up there, you know, killed in a perjury charge.
Because there's nothing, as Jeb said, that's inconsistent with anything that Chuck has said.
Oh.
You could be right.
Chuck could say, yes, the Liddy Project, sure, but I thought the Liddy Project was something else.
That's right.
That's what he does say.
He does, huh?
Yeah.
And as Ehrlichman said, and under questioning, they specifically said that he didn't get into the, you know, any specifics on it.
They had nothing that hits him on any specifics.
And I think he's probably clear on it.
I think he believes that, Bob.
I don't know.
I think he believes that.
Well, we're sleeping on the goddamn thing.
What's the situation tomorrow?
Is Erdman going to sit down with Ziegler again or something?
I do think the PR thing, we've got to sort of make up our minds on what the hell— Yeah, I want to get at getting the statement done.
Again, we've got to sort of make this decision with regard to this goddamn committee.
I don't know.
I still have mixed emotions on it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, one way one time, one way another.
Well, it's a mixed bag.
It has pluses and minuses.
It's hard to be sure which outweigh the other.
One scenario would be simply say, oh, they will all come up on—everybody will come up in executive session, including Dean.
Just say that.
And make that offer, and that's flat.
Yeah, and that gets turned down and then we're standing on the question of—the way it'll be played is not that the committee is being unreasonable by insisting on television, it's that we're being unreasonable by insisting against it.
Well, that wouldn't be true unless you've got a hammer that the whole record can be made public.
Yeah.
It's only that we don't—we want information, not a show.
Yeah.
And we think it should be—
The question then is you lose something, obviously, by doing that, and do we really gain enough to make it worth it?
How bad is it if we go on television?
I'm not all sure it's all that bad.
The first place is going to be in the daytime.
The second place, as of now, it's not going to be carried live by the networks.
It might be, but I would guess it won't be after this other stuff breaks.
It isn't going to be that important anymore.
The networks don't want to carry it because it costs them money.
It'll probably end up happening as it'll be carried on the public broadcasting.
Virtually no audience in the daytime.
I suppose what happens there is that every new break then is carried for five minutes or ten in the evening news.
That's right.
That's the point.
That's right.
It's got to be carried anyway.
It's a question of whether it's carried for five minutes with one of us on camera for a couple of those minutes or whether it's carried for three minutes with... Weicker.
Yeah.
Saying, you know, trembling with fear and obviously trying to hide the truth.
I wondered if you would do this.
Did you discuss the public or private thing with two people whose judgment is Rogers and Connolly?
What did Connolly think, public?
I'm not sure.
Would you mind— I'd have to reopen that.
Would it be all right for you to call him and ask him?
Sure.
I wish you would tomorrow and say, look, we've just got to make a command decision on this.
Sure.
And I think you should tell him about the Magruder.
No.
No, I guess not.
I can say the whole thing looks like it's coming to a conclusion.
Before the grand jury.
Yeah.
That's right.
Without saying any specifics.
Right.
Now, the other fellow whose judgment would be pretty good, Bob, would be Bill Rogers on that.
Yep, I agree.
And I wish you would give him a call.
All right.
I will.
I think that Bill, though you could tell him, don't you think?
No, I don't think I should.
First place, I'm not supposed to know.
Well, this isn't from the grand jury, Bob.
No, I know, but my niece is worried about
I see.
You're right.
I don't see anything to be gained from telling him anyway.
But you can tell him that our investigations indicate that the grand jury is hot on the trail of breaking the thing now.
Yeah.
That's the way it's going to come.
But if you wouldn't mind giving a call in the morning to both those fellows and telling them that you're calling for the president.
they'd like to have their considered judgment, should you be on television or not on television.
Right.
Will do.
And it may be on the Dean thing.
I'm almost inclined to think we ought to give on that.
What do you think?
The idea of backing down, they're going to be backed down anyway, so what's the difference?
That has never bothered me, but I guess I'm wrong on it, because it sure bothers other people.
I don't think we gain more by backing down than we lose.
I don't think you have any problem with being in a situation where there's not enough battles anyway.
I just say that by all this—because of all of these charges that have been around, these men are entitled to be heard in public.
That's right.
And I want them heard in public, and I want them to tell their story in public.
I'm almost convinced that that's what we ought to do with the whole damn bunch and not try to stand on the Dean thing and the rest.
get a settlement that way.
Well, that's my present view, Bob, and we can go on it.
Another point, you do—it's one person you do tell, and I—we can still say that he just told him to tell the truth.
He ought to tell Strawn, but— Strawn's going to.
But not in a way that Strawn indicates that he knows what the other fellow said.
Strawn is smart enough to do that.
He said he's got to be prepared that he's going to be asked this, he's going to be asked that.
John should just put him through a little ringer there.
Yep.
John is the one that should do it.
He's conducting an investigation for the president.
Well, he's got the information.
I don't.
And I can reconstruct— No, that's right.
I agree.
But John will know the questions, too.
Specific points is what he needs to cover.
That's good.
That's good.
Well, you know, the point that's rather interesting to me tonight,
You know, when you really think of what the hell, here we are, it's really quite true, without being melodramatic, the hopes for peace in this damn world will depend on this office right now in the next four years.
And God damn it, we've got to be sure that that isn't compromised by anything that indicates any lack of confidence in the president.
Isn't that what it gets down to?
Yep.
That's why I think this is sort of a cheap price to pay
You know what I mean?
On that point.
That's exactly right.
I'm just thinking I'm rather glad I went.
You know what I mean?
Good thing.
They were good.
They got a little bit of—I gave them more substance than they normally get, which they like.
Johnson and Harry Truman in for a moment of silence and a little reference to David Lawrence, which everybody loved.
Brodergan, I actually—he never told me that, but I know he felt that.
He proved he didn't.
And he's written it.
That's a very nice thing.
That is only one harder thing than the president waging war, and that's the president waging peace.
It's not a bad line, is it?
It's not original, but it's pretty good.
No, but it's good.
It's the occasion.
Because we haven't, we've never succeeded in doing that.
It's really quite true.
And God damn it, that's the mark of this administration.
We are waging peace like hell.
Well, okay.
Take a little, I'll talk with him in the morning.
Take off half hour.
Okay.