Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 38 › Conversation 038-048

Nixon, Petersen & Shaffer on Watergate scandal and John Dean

Sunday, April 15, 1973 · 4:00 PM–5:15 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min

ParticipantsPetersen, Henry E.; White House operator; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Shaffer, Charles N.; Silbert, Earl J.Conversation038-048 on Tape 38StartSunday, April 15, 1973 at 4:00 PMEndSunday, April 15, 1973 at 5:15 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 038-048 ↗

AI Summary

Assistant Attorney General Henry Petersen confers with prosecutors Earl Silbert and Charles Shaffer regarding the ongoing Watergate investigation and the credibility of key witnesses. The participants evaluate conflicting accounts from John Dean and Gordon Strachan, specifically focusing on the involvement of H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman in managing hush money and obstructing the investigation. The conversation concludes with administrative arrangements for an in-person meeting at Petersen’s home to further coordinate their legal strategy.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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This is Henry Peterson.
I asked you to call to 621600.
Oh, yes, sir.
I did dial, and then I wasn't sure who was placing the call.
I didn't want to ring back on the president's line.
Yes, it's Henry Peterson.
All right.
Will you hold the line?
Yes, please.
Thank you.
Hello?
Yeah?
Is that Charlie?
Yeah.
It's Henry Peters.
Oh, Henry.
Just a minute.
Hello, how are you doing?
Chris Schaffer was in the middle of summarizing his position.
His position is hardening a little.
In the sense that, if John is believable, we have a case against Haldeman and Roach, and they knew everything that was going on.
If John Dean is believable, you have an obstruction in case against Haldeman and Ehrlichman?
Well, let me say this to you.
They knew everything that was going on.
That is all the plans, like the Magruder plans and, you know, they were, you know, like Ehrlichman, you know, his present, you know, again, going through the same stories about, you know, the deep sea, get rid of the, you know, get out of, he and Haldeman are in on the money.
I mean, Ehrlichman and Alderman are in on the money.
Clearly, I mean, the $350,000 comes from Alderman, and he's putting it in, and Alderman told him to get it back over there, and that they knew that the money were coming in.
I mean, the demands were being made, and finally they had to give this money up.
Alderman's decision to send it all back to the committee, and he told John to do it, and that's what John calls drawn.
Drawn, you know, does not, John's testimony so far is inconsistent with that.
He was on the idea, Haldeman, I don't even know the money was there, and he just brought it and decided to bring it back.
He just called up, I mean, his story is basically not too believable.
That is Strawn's.
Strawn's is much more credible because he says, yeah, I give it to LaRue because LaRue was giving all the money, and that's why the money went to LaRue.
Whereas Strawn can say, well, he doesn't return it to the finance committee, which is normally where it would go back.
He returns it to LaRue.
And why does he return it to LaRue?
Because LaRue is, I mean, Straub's explanation is, well, he was a senior campaign official.
Money ought to go back to the person in a finance committee.
Does he say, Haldeman said to?
Give it to LaRue?
No, not that.
He said, give it back.
Send it back to the committee and get a receipt.
That's what Haldeman said.
But there is a, you know, based on the money,
The dean is really giving us only pumps, except for the fact that he had advised Haldeman on the first two meetings that took place in the Attorney General's office.
You know, just horrible, and he says, well, Haldeman agreed, and we should have nothing to do with it.
Nobody stopped him.
Huh?
Nobody stopped him.
Nobody stopped him.
Now, how far are you from winding up out there?
Pretty quick.
And then what are you going to do?
I don't know what to do.
I don't have any great ideas.
Where are you?
I'm out in Rockville.
Okay.
Why don't you come on by my house on your way in?
I'm with Seymour.
That's fine.
Yeah.
I mean, I couldn't make it out today, but I'm with Seymour.
Okay.
Well, wait a minute.
Are you home?
No.
Oh, you're not home now?
No.
Oh, okay.
Well, are you going home so you'll be there?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Where do you live?
Um...
916 Daleview Drive.
916.
I'm writing it down.
Daleview Drive.
Silver Spray.
Silver Spray.
Yeah.
Well, let me tell you where I am.
I'm not too good on Maryland, but we are out, you know, just, I guess, beyond Russell Center or something on 355, but then, you know, that takes us back.
I go, Charlie, to direct you to Four Corners.
To Four Corners?
Yeah, to University Boulevard and Coolsville Road.
University...
I know how to get there from my place, but I don't know how to get around here.
Coastal Road, okay.
And then proceed down University Boulevard.
Yeah.
To Game Drive.
Which direction are we going on University?
You're going towards the University of Maryland.
Away from town.
No, that's not it.
It's a lateral route.
All right.
He passed the synagogue and Buckingham Drive's on next street.
Turn left at Buckingham Drive.
It dead ends at the bottom of the hill.
Turn right.
Dead end.
Turn right.
And it dead ends again.
It's a right turn only.
It'll be driving Weaver Street.
You mean Weaver to the left?
Turn right on Wolf Buckingham onto Weaver.
Onto Weaver.
And you go one block, and you turn right, my house is right on the corner.
One block, and that right, that's actually Dale, too.
Okay, got it.
Okay, I'll meet you there.
About six?
You'll be home by then?
I'll be home by six.
Okay, because I think we're going to wind up here maybe within 20 minutes or so.
Okay.
All right?
All right.
Good.
Very good.
Bye.
Bye.

NARA Description

On April 15, 1973, Henry E. Petersen, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles N. Shaffer, and Earl J. Silbert talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 5:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-048 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 38-48

Date: April 15, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:00 pm and 5:15 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Henry E. Petersen talked with the White House operator. The President can be heard in the
background.

      Telephone call
           -Placement

      Justice Department
            -Hard Work

Petersen talked with Charles N. Shaffer at an unknown time.

      Greetings

Peterson talked with Earl J. Silbert at an unknown time.

      Watergate
           -Shaffer presentation
           -John W. Dean, III’s possible testimony
           -Culpability of H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
                 -Jeb Stuart Magruder
                 -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
                       -Flight
           -Funds for defendants
                 -Haldeman order to Dean
                                             -29-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                           Conversation No. 38-48 (cont’d)

                 -Gordon C. Strachan’s testimony
                 -Veracity
                 -Dean’s story
                 -Frederick C. LaRue
                 -Haldeman’s orders

     Silbert’s schedule
           -Rockville, Maryland
           -Seymour Glanzer
           -Don [last name unknown]
           -Directions to Petersen’s house
                  -Shaffer

Also recorded on April 15, 1973

  • 038-042 2:22 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:22 pm and 3:27 pm.
  • 038-043 3:27 PM · 18 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:27 pm to 3:44 pm.
  • 038-044 3:44 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:44 pm and 3:48 pm.
  • 038-045 3:48 PM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Richard G. Kleindienst talked on the telephone from 3:48 pm to 3:49 pm.
  • 038-046 3:50 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:50 pm.
  • 038-047 4:00 PM · 20 sec — Henry E. Petersen, White House operator, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 5:15 pm.
  • 038-049 4:00 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 5:15 pm.
  • 038-050 5:17 PM · 24 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at 5:17 pm.

All 20 conversations from April 15, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 038-048, April 15, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-048 (accessed October 12, 2026).