{"conversationCode":"038-060","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":60,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-060","startDateTime":"1973-04-16T03:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-16T04:15:00.000Z","startDate":"15-Apr-1973","startTime":"10:16 PM","endDate":"15-Apr-1973","endTime":"11:15 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Ehrlichman, John D.; Gray, L[ouis] Patrick, III;","description":"On April 15, 1973, John D. Ehrlichman and L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-060 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-60\n\nDate: April 15, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nJohn D. Ehrlichman talked with L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III.\n\f                                              -35-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 38-60 (cont’d)\n\n     Watergate\n          -John W. Dean, III\n                -Conversation with US Attorney\n                      -Envelope to Gray\n                -Relations with Henry E. Petersen\n                -Envelope to Gray\n                      -Gray’s reaction\n                      -John D. Ehrlichman’s reaction","filename":["038-060.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Ehrlichman, John D.","Gray, L[ouis] Patrick, III"],"prevCode":"038-059","nextCode":"038-061","transcript":[{"start":0.54,"end":1.24,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.32,"end":1.86,"text":"Hi, Mr. Grant."},{"start":1.88,"end":2.1,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":3.74,"end":4.84,"text":"Pat, this is John Ehrlichman."},{"start":5.02,"end":5.9,"text":"Yes, John."},{"start":5.92,"end":6.52,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":6.54,"end":7.3,"text":"Did I find you at home?"},{"start":7.72,"end":8.99,"text":"Yes, I'm at home."},{"start":9.01,"end":20.1,"text":"I wanted to tell you that John Dean has apparently decided to make a clean breast of things with a U.S. attorney."},{"start":22.54,"end":28.05,"text":"One of the questions that apparently they've been asking him is about the envelope that he turned over to you."},{"start":28.51,"end":30.09,"text":"Yeah, well, he better deny that."},{"start":30.57,"end":33.96,"text":"Well, he's apparently pretty much on the record on that."},{"start":33.98,"end":37.08,"text":"I thought I'd better alert you to it."},{"start":37.22,"end":39.54,"text":"What the hell am I going to do about that?"},{"start":40.84,"end":41.12,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":41.19,"end":42.15,"text":"Is it still in being?"},{"start":42.57,"end":42.77,"text":"No."},{"start":43.05,"end":43.51,"text":"I see."},{"start":45.95,"end":46.21,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":46.23,"end":48.93,"text":"I was told that that was purely political and I destroyed it."},{"start":49.09,"end":49.43,"text":"I see."},{"start":51.12,"end":51.22,"text":"Okay."},{"start":51.23,"end":52.22,"text":"Well, it probably was."},{"start":53,"end":54.7,"text":"Is there any way you can turn him off?"},{"start":54.98,"end":56.3,"text":"No."},{"start":56.32,"end":56.38,"text":"No."},{"start":59.11,"end":64.36,"text":"out of any orbit that we recognize around here."},{"start":66.04,"end":67.62,"text":"So I just wanted to alert you to it."},{"start":69.96,"end":72.26,"text":"What other things do you think he's going to talk about?"},{"start":73.27,"end":83.54,"text":"Well, he's putting the best face on his relations with Peterson that he can, because Peterson has sort of moved in on the prosecution."},{"start":85.04,"end":87.8,"text":"Was he doing things with Peterson, too?"},{"start":89.01,"end":93.5,"text":"I see."},{"start":94.12,"end":100.89,"text":"You might want to take a look at your whole card where he's concerned, because I don't know all ins and outs of your relationship or, you know, what..."},{"start":100.91,"end":103.63,"text":"The only thing I can do with this is deny it."},{"start":103.65,"end":105.45,"text":"Okay."},{"start":105.47,"end":108.11,"text":"You're not going to back him up, are you?"},{"start":108.31,"end":114.54,"text":"I can, you know, just say I don't know anything about it except that what he told me."},{"start":116.42,"end":117.16,"text":"But..."},{"start":117.31,"end":121,"text":"He has spent all day today with a U.S. attorney."},{"start":127.47,"end":129.99,"text":"So, that's about all I have to tell you for the moment."},{"start":131.17,"end":132.46,"text":"I'll keep you posted if I can."},{"start":132.94,"end":133.44,"text":"Okay."},{"start":133.46,"end":134.1,"text":"All right, John."},{"start":134.92,"end":135.76,"text":"Thank you very much."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"John D. Ehrlichman calls Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray to warn him that John Dean is cooperating with the U.S. Attorney and disclosing information regarding sensitive materials previously entrusted to Gray. The two discuss Gray's destruction of these documents, which he claims were purely political in nature, and contemplate how to handle the inevitable scrutiny. Ehrlichman stresses the need for Gray to be prepared, as Dean's cooperation with Henry Petersen creates a significant threat to their efforts to contain the Watergate investigation.","topics":["Watergate scandal","John Dean","L. Patrick Gray","Obstruction of justice","Evidence destruction","Henry Petersen"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:33:09.594Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate-scandal","john-dean","l-patrick-gray","obstruction-of-justice","evidence-destruction","henry-petersen"],"audioDurationSec":142,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-060.mp3","bytes":4532224,"durationSec":141.52,"bitrate":256202,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.069Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.441Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-060.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-060","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-060","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}