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Conversation 038-086

TapeTape 38StartTuesday, April 17, 1973 at 2:39 PMEndTuesday, April 17, 1973 at 2:40 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman coordinated the talking points for Nixon’s upcoming meeting with Assistant Attorney General Henry E. Petersen regarding the Watergate investigation. They established a firm policy against granting immunity to top White House officials, such as John Dean and Charles Colson, while remaining open to immunity for lower-level staffers like Gordon Strachan. Furthermore, they clarified personnel policies regarding suspensions upon indictment and resignations upon conviction, while also planning to confront Petersen about the political damage caused by ongoing leaks from the grand jury.

Watergate scandalHenry E. PetersenWitness immunityGrand jury leaksWhite House personnel policy
AudioNARA Description

On April 17, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:39 pm to 2:40 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-086 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 38-86

Date: April 17, 1973
Time: 2:39 pm - 2:40 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See also Conversation No. 898-19]

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared Richard Nixon’s Special
White House Counsel for Watergate Matters and submitted to the Committee on the Judiciary of
the House of Representatives. This transcript can be found in Submission of Recorded
                                             -48-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. January-2011)

                                                              Conversation No. 38-86 (cont’d)

Presidential Conversations (SRPC), pages 1057-1059 (1-3). Please refer to the logging below.]

     Watergate
          -President’s forthcoming meeting with Henry E. Petersen
          -Immunity
                -Gordon C. Strachan
          -President’s forthcoming statement
                -Ehrlichman’s draft
                -John W. Dean, III
                -Charles W. Colson
          -Resignations
          -Immunity for White House staff
          -Leaks from grand jury
          -Suspension
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

John.
Yes, sir.
I don't want to interrupt your statement, but I just wanted to be sure to check that twice you want with Peterson to be in just five to ten minutes.
So, one, no immunity.
However, I would say for any top, any of the top three,
In other words, so that I can, it sort of appears that if you want to give a distraught, that's okay.
Don't you think that's a good line?
I think that's good.
All right.
Any of the people in the... Yeah.
Yeah.
The four points, as I wrote them down, were to inform him that you were making a statement.
And that I've done.
Your policy with regard to suspension and firing, which is charges or indictment.
Indictment for suspension and firing for conviction, which will be in the statement that I'm drafting.
Okay.
You'll tell the press that.
Right.
Then privately, to him, your policy with regard to immunity for top people.
Yeah.
I wouldn't limit it to three.
I'd say any top person, like Dean or up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
But then I'll say, as far as a fellow like Strawn, that's fine.
Do what you want.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that strengthens the position.
Coulson, Dean, anybody of that kind, no dice.
Please mention these four to me.
I'll just say them.
And then forth the leaks out of the Grand Jury.
And we'll report it to him, whether he doesn't think that later exposure would prejudice the whole investigation and whether or not he shouldn't withdraw at an appropriate time.
Charges or replacement can be obtained.
Charges that I'm going to follow a policy of accepting resignations and charges or indictment.
Is that it?
No, of a suspension on indictment and a resignation on conviction.
Oh, of course.
That's right.
Everybody would know that.
Suspension on indictment and resignation on refusing to cooperate.
Right.
Or conviction.
Yeah.
Right.
And what about charges?
I mean, remember, we had that gray area.
Well, there again, you'll have to reserve the right, depending on the seriousness of the charge.
And I'll say, if there's a serious corroborated charge, then you want him to bring it to you, and you'll reserve judgment on the individual case.
Okay, good.
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