Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 38 › Conversation 038-101

Nixon phone call with Petersen on Watergate and Grand Jury

Wednesday, April 18, 1973 · 2:50 PM–2:56 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Petersen, Henry E.Conversation038-101 on Tape 38StartWednesday, April 18, 1973 at 2:50 PMEndWednesday, April 18, 1973 at 2:56 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 038-101 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Assistant Attorney General Henry E. Petersen confer to discuss the ongoing status of the Watergate investigation, specifically focusing on grand jury leaks, the legal status of key figures like Jeb Stuart Magruder and John W. Dean, III, and concerns regarding the Ervin Committee's access to FBI interview files. The conversation highlights the administration's efforts to manage public comments via Ron Ziegler while maintaining judicial neutrality, as well as the urgency of securing a commitment from Magruder to prevent premature committee interference. Petersen emphasizes the need to tie down testimony before negotiating with Senator Ervin, while Nixon reaffirms his intent to handle high-profile individuals consistently while avoiding accusations of a cover-up.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Hello, Mr. President.
Well, what's anything I need to know today?
No, sir, there are no significant developments.
Right.
All right.
Strawn's coming in, Fred Vincent, former Assistant Attorney General.
Johnson is representing him.
Representing who?
Strawn, I think it is.
He's going to come in.
Strawn, Strawn.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Gordon Strawn.
Yeah, yeah.
been no developments.
They're still negotiating.
We've got a problem with the grand jury.
The only copy of the grand jury transcript's been locked up in the prosecutor's office.
We've got the FBI checking out a reporter, you know, on the grounds that they've leaked
The judge called us in about it this morning.
That's right, I did.
Yes.
What he means, part of it is leaking.
He was concerned about leaking.
Yeah.
And of course, he's been printing some of it.
We've changed reporters.
We haven't even been bringing it over here for security reasons.
Yeah, for God's sake.
We've got to, I would hope, keep the grand jury from leaking.
Well, you know, I don't want to go too far on it either because I don't want to get into a diversionary battle.
Exactly.
Oh, hell no.
I wouldn't pay that much attention to it.
I agree.
I agree.
No.
What I meant is just do the best to control it.
We are indeed.
Because we know that it's just wrong.
We're handling it over here, I trust, all right, because I just told Ziegler that he won't comment on anything because it might affect the rights of, affect either the prosecution of the rights of innocent people or the rights of defendants.
We're not taking any calls from him over here.
So that's all we're saying.
Can't talk to him at all.
Fine.
I was kind of pleased with the reaction your statement got.
I think it was probably the right thing to say.
What have you got?
You've still got, you haven't made any...
You haven't finished the thing with McGruder yet then, huh?
No, I haven't finished the thing with McGruder.
Dean the same, huh?
Yeah, Dean's—well, we've just backed off of him for a while.
It's always one time to think.
Yeah.
I have deliberately, Henry, I have left Dean in a position where I said, look, he's going to be treated like everybody else because it isn't fair for him to—
at all, you know what I mean?
Like when we talked about resignation and so forth, if I don't, since he has made some charges, or, well, it isn't that, since he has at least had some private discussions, but they haven't yet been in the grand jury forum.
So I have to respect those.
So that was your suggestion, at least, that we should not do anything on Dean at this point.
I think that's right.
I think you just don't let him sit.
All I have is just information.
basically from you and from him, but it's information which the gravity of which I just can't judge until I see whether it's corroborated.
Well, we have to treat that as private in any event.
Private, don't I?
Yeah.
And for that reason, if I were to move, we'd do it.
So I think we're in the right position, and then...
Okay, then I won't expect any more from you today.
I won't bother you, huh?
No, I'm just— Good.
I'm a little concerned about Senator Irwin's committee.
They've just, under the agreement that Kleindies worked out with Senator Irwin— Yeah.
—have called the Bureau and asked to see the interview statements of McGruder, Porter, Sloan, and LaRue.
Oh, my God.
and I feel like I'm sitting on a powder keg there, but I don't feel like I can dare go to Senator Irwin until I get a definite commitment from Magruder.
Yeah, yeah.
Magruder, what's waiting besides the committee?
What's waiting besides the committee with him?
That's all.
The deal with the D.C. jail.
Well, that's right, and whether or not the judge is going to clap him in right away and whether or not the committee is going to put the pressure on him.
In other words, you think that...
You haven't yet tried to talk to Irvin?
No, sir, and I don't want to until I can tie him down.
You just got him tied.
Yeah, I get it.
Well, you know, I got to be able to come out and say that I'm coming out with something public in terms of a charge.
Yeah, I see.
You know, and I don't have a valid basis for asking to hold up.
Okay, well, in any event, I'm glad you thought the statement went well.
I worked on it to be sure that it didn't compromise anybody one way or another.
And as you noticed, I put the immunity thing that leaves the ball in your court.
But on the other hand, I had to express the view because basically people are going to ask me, what about Mitchell?
What about, you know, a lot of people?
And I just can't be in that position.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Lower people are different.
But, you know, upper people, Christ, they might think I'm protecting Gray.
I agree.
Okay.
All right, Mr. Craig.
Thanks.

NARA Description

On April 18, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry E. Petersen talked on the telephone from 2:50 pm to 2:56 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-101 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 38-101

Date: April 18, 1973
Time: 2:50 pm - 2:56 pm
Location: White House Telephone

     Watergate
          -Gordon C. Strachan
                -Fred Moore Vinson, Jr.
          -Grand jury
                -Leaks from testimony
                      -John J. Sirica
                      -Court reporter
                      -Jack Anderson
          -White House statements
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
          -President’s statement
          -Jeb Stuart Magruder
          -John W. Dean, III
                -Possible resignation
                -President’s knowledge
          -Ervin Committee
                -Richard G. Kleindienst
                      -Federal Bureau of Investigations [FBI] interviews of Magruder, Herbert
                      L. Porter, Hugh W. Sloan, Jr., and Frederick C. LaRue
                -Magruder
                      -Jail
                -Petersen’s possible meeting with Sam J. Ervin, Jr.
          -President’s statement
                -John N. Mitchell
                -L[ouis] Patrick Gray
                -Immunity
                                                       -60-

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Also recorded on April 18, 1973

  • 038-102 2:56 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:56 pm and 2:57 pm.
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All 48 conversations from April 18, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 038-101, April 18, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-101 (accessed October 5, 2026).