Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 38 › Conversation 038-111

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and Grand jury

Thursday, April 19, 1973 · 1:45 PM–1:46 PM ET · White House Telephone · 1 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation038-111 on Tape 38StartThursday, April 19, 1973 at 1:45 PMEndThursday, April 19, 1973 at 1:46 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 038-111 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon instructs Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler to publicly emphasize that he has explicitly directed Assistant Attorney General Henry Petersen to withhold all grand jury proceedings from him. Nixon expresses concern that leaks, particularly those involving columnist Jack Anderson, could taint the investigation and wants to distance himself from the inner workings of the grand jury. The President clarifies that while he continues to receive general investigatory reports, he is consciously avoiding specific grand jury information to maintain procedural integrity.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yeah.
Yes, sir.
You could say even, and this is true, I have, that the president has directed specifically Mr. Peterson not to give him reports from within the grand jury.
Those are, those should not be passed on anybody, and that's true.
Right.
And I, and that, but he gets the reports of the investigation.
Right.
I made that clear.
All right.
Just cleared it up.
No problem.
This, this is not a point of contention.
I simply, but I don't, let me tell you, a few of this Jack Anderson thing, that may,
that may taint this grand jury, see?
So I want to be damn sure that I ain't getting any reports from him.
That's right.
I made that point.
As a matter of fact, I was asking, are you saying specifically in denying that the person received his receipt?
I said, I'm denying that.
His information?
No, I want you to say that I have directed, which is true.
I've told Peterson, don't tell me anything from within the grand jury.
Okay, good.
That's the point.
I did, and he'll tell you that.
Okay, sir.
I said, Peterson, I said, Henry, don't you give me anything from in the grand jury.
I don't want to know.
Right.
Because I don't want to pass it on to anybody, see?
Okay, in my direction, he only gives me other investigatory reports.
Did you in turn discuss information that you've been able to determine?
Yes, my own personal investigation where we go over the facts and so forth.

NARA Description

On April 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 1:45 pm to 1:46 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-111 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 38-111

Date: April 19, 1973
Time: 1:45 pm - 1:46 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

[See also Conversation No. 429-5]

     Watergate
          -Grand jury
               -President’s knowledge of proceedings
               -Jack N. Anderson
               -President’s instructions to Henry E. Petersen

Also recorded on April 19, 1973

  • 038-110 1:41 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:41 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 429-005 1:45 PM · 55 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:45 pm to 1:46 pm.
  • 038-112 1:46 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:46 pm and 1:48 pm.
  • 429-026 1:46 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:46 pm and 1:48 pm.
  • 038-113 1:48 PM · 50 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 1:48 pm to 1:50 pm.
  • 429-006 1:48 PM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:48 pm to 1:49 pm.
  • 429-007 1:50 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:50 pm and 1:57 pm.
  • 429-008 1:50 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:50 pm and 1:57 pm.

All 54 conversations from April 19, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 038-111, April 19, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-111 (accessed October 5, 2026).