{"conversationCode":"038-111","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":111,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-111","startDateTime":"1973-04-19T18:45:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-19T18:46:00.000Z","startDate":"19-Apr-1973","startTime":"1:45 PM","endDate":"19-Apr-1973","endTime":"1:46 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 1:45 pm to 1:46 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-111 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-111\n\nDate: April 19, 1973\nTime: 1:45 pm - 1:46 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 429-5]\n\n     Watergate\n          -Grand jury\n               -President’s knowledge of proceedings\n               -Jack N. Anderson\n               -President’s instructions to Henry E. Petersen","filename":["038-111.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"038-110","nextCode":"038-112","transcript":[{"start":0.44,"end":0.9,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":1.1,"end":1.38,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.26,"end":10.77,"text":"You could say even, and this is true, I have, that the president has directed specifically Mr. Peterson not to give him reports from within the grand jury."},{"start":10.79,"end":14.07,"text":"Those are, those should not be passed on anybody, and that's true."},{"start":14.39,"end":14.51,"text":"Right."},{"start":14.59,"end":19,"text":"And I, and that, but he gets the reports of the investigation."},{"start":19.06,"end":19.88,"text":"Right."},{"start":19.94,"end":20.6,"text":"I made that clear."},{"start":21.2,"end":21.66,"text":"All right."},{"start":21.7,"end":22.2,"text":"Just cleared it up."},{"start":22.22,"end":22.68,"text":"No problem."},{"start":22.7,"end":24.54,"text":"This, this is not a point of contention."},{"start":24.62,"end":28.27,"text":"I simply, but I don't, let me tell you, a few of this Jack Anderson thing, that may,"},{"start":28.46,"end":30.25,"text":"that may taint this grand jury, see?"},{"start":30.27,"end":32.77,"text":"So I want to be damn sure that I ain't getting any reports from him."},{"start":32.79,"end":33.33,"text":"That's right."},{"start":33.35,"end":34.09,"text":"I made that point."},{"start":34.11,"end":39.54,"text":"As a matter of fact, I was asking, are you saying specifically in denying that the person received his receipt?"},{"start":39.56,"end":40.66,"text":"I said, I'm denying that."},{"start":40.72,"end":42.02,"text":"His information?"},{"start":42.06,"end":44.78,"text":"No, I want you to say that I have directed, which is true."},{"start":44.92,"end":47.88,"text":"I've told Peterson, don't tell me anything from within the grand jury."},{"start":48.14,"end":48.97,"text":"Okay, good."},{"start":48.98,"end":49.49,"text":"That's the point."},{"start":49.59,"end":50.79,"text":"I did, and he'll tell you that."},{"start":50.97,"end":51.49,"text":"Okay, sir."},{"start":51.51,"end":54.43,"text":"I said, Peterson, I said, Henry, don't you give me anything from in the grand jury."},{"start":54.49,"end":55.13,"text":"I don't want to know."},{"start":55.37,"end":55.75,"text":"Right."},{"start":55.77,"end":57.17,"text":"Because I don't want to pass it on to anybody, see?"},{"start":57.39,"end":60.58,"text":"Okay, in my direction, he only gives me other investigatory reports."},{"start":61.08,"end":66.09,"text":"Did you in turn discuss information that you've been able to determine?"},{"start":66.11,"end":78.64,"text":"Yes, my own personal investigation where we go over the facts and so forth."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon instructs Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler to publicly emphasize that he has explicitly directed Assistant Attorney General Henry Petersen to withhold all grand jury proceedings from him. Nixon expresses concern that leaks, particularly those involving columnist Jack Anderson, could taint the investigation and wants to distance himself from the inner workings of the grand jury. The President clarifies that while he continues to receive general investigatory reports, he is consciously avoiding specific grand jury information to maintain procedural integrity.","topics":["Watergate","Grand jury","Henry E. Petersen","Jack N. Anderson","Executive privilege","Public relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:37:49.660Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","grand-jury","henry-e-petersen","jack-n-anderson","executive-privilege","public-relations"],"audioDurationSec":79,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-111.mp3","bytes":2519040,"durationSec":78.6,"bitrate":256390,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-111.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-111","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-111","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}