{"conversationCode":"038-114","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":114,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-114","startDateTime":"1973-04-19T19:05:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-19T19:08:00.000Z","startDate":"19-Apr-1973","startTime":"2:05 PM","endDate":"19-Apr-1973","endTime":"2:08 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Kissinger, Henry A.; Nixon, Richard M. (President);","description":"On April 19, 1973, Henry A. Kissinger and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 2:05 pm to 2:08 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-114 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-114\n\nDate: April 19, 1973\nTime: 2:05 pm -2:08 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nHenry A. Kissinger talked with the President.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 429-12]\n\n     Jewish leaders’ meeting with President\n          -Soviet Jewry\n                -Compared with Congress members’ meeting\n                -Leonard Garment\n\n           -US – Soviet summit\n                 Cancellation\n                       Jewish Americans\n                             -Blame\n                             -Publicity\n           -United States negotiations with Soviet Union\n\f                                             -66-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                           Conversation No. 38-114 (cont’d)\n\n           -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson amendment [Jackson-Vanik Amendment] [?]\n           -Soviet summit\n                 -Cancellation\n                      -Jewish Americans\n                             -Blame\n                             -Publicity\n                             -Anti-Semitism","filename":["038-114.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Kissinger, Henry A.","Nixon, Richard M. (President)"],"prevCode":"038-113","nextCode":"038-115","transcript":[{"start":0.52,"end":1.5,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.52,"end":4.41,"text":"Mr. Henry Kissinger, sir."},{"start":4.49,"end":5.75,"text":"Hello, Mr. President?"},{"start":7.75,"end":8.11,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":8.63,"end":8.73,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":8.75,"end":9.47,"text":"Mr. President?"},{"start":9.49,"end":10.13,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":10.15,"end":17.69,"text":"I thought you should know that the leaders, you know, the Jewish leaders were a lot better than the congressmen."},{"start":17.71,"end":19.33,"text":"That's what Len Garment told Senators."},{"start":19.59,"end":21.33,"text":"Well, if you handle it beautifully."},{"start":21.87,"end":24.14,"text":"Anyway, now it's up to them."},{"start":24.16,"end":29.14,"text":"If they want to make this the case, then we'll let the... Let me say, Henry, it's going to be the worst thing that ever happened."},{"start":29.39,"end":39.06,"text":"Jews in American history, if they torpedo this summit, which might go down for other reasons, I'm going to put the blame on them and I'm going to do it publicly at 9 o'clock at night before 80 million people."},{"start":39.4,"end":40.12,"text":"Now that's it, Henry."},{"start":40.7,"end":41.42,"text":"I agree with you."},{"start":42.29,"end":42.39,"text":"Okay."},{"start":42.91,"end":43.87,"text":"I agree completely."},{"start":44.91,"end":48.73,"text":"They might have brought it on themselves if that happens."},{"start":48.75,"end":49.17,"text":"Maybe not."},{"start":49.19,"end":51.74,"text":"I mean, you've gotten them a tremendous concession."},{"start":51.76,"end":54.5,"text":"This thing, and then they sit there and say, why don't we get more?"},{"start":54.54,"end":56.86,"text":"Well, good God, what do they want?"},{"start":56.88,"end":57.88,"text":"For them to crawl?"},{"start":58.52,"end":62.47,"text":"You don't want to stop me from having the conversations?"},{"start":62.48,"end":68.69,"text":"Well, one would even raise the question, Mr. President, whether it was a legitimate exercise of foreign policy for us to get involved at all."},{"start":69.35,"end":76.88,"text":"But as it happens, we didn't get all that much involved because we got most of this volunteered by the Soviets."},{"start":79.32,"end":81.75,"text":"This is totally out of the question."},{"start":81.77,"end":85.19,"text":"Anyway, we're going to fight the Jackson men flat out."},{"start":85.27,"end":88.38,"text":"And believe me, I want you to know, and I hope"},{"start":88.96,"end":97.23,"text":"sure that if you're ever talking to any of your friends and your side here, you better know that the summit screws up."},{"start":97.25,"end":98.59,"text":"The Jews get the blame."},{"start":99.16,"end":101.58,"text":"And by God, that's going to be a rough cop when I do it."},{"start":101.62,"end":105.46,"text":"And I won't mind one goddamn bit to have a little anti-Semitism if it's on that issue."},{"start":106.2,"end":108.01,"text":"Do you understand what I mean?"},{"start":108.03,"end":111.19,"text":"I think that's what it's going to be, Henry."},{"start":111.21,"end":113.79,"text":"They put the Jewish interest above America's interest."},{"start":113.81,"end":118.16,"text":"It's about goddamn time that the Jew in America realizes an American person is a Jew second."},{"start":118.8,"end":120.27,"text":"Well, I couldn't agree more."},{"start":121.5,"end":123.19,"text":"I'm sure it's going to be okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss the political fallout regarding Jewish leaders' pressure on U.S.-Soviet relations, specifically concerning the potential cancellation of an upcoming summit. Nixon expresses extreme frustration with the influence of Jewish groups and the Jackson-Vanik Amendment, vowing to publicly blame American Jewish leaders if their advocacy causes the summit to collapse. Both participants agree that the administration must prioritize American national interests over these specific lobbying efforts, even at the risk of inciting antisemitic sentiment.","topics":["Soviet Jewry","Jackson-Vanik Amendment","US-Soviet Summit","Antisemitism","Foreign Policy","Jewish Americans"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:38:06.345Z"},"topicSlugs":["soviet-jewry","jackson-vanik-amendment","us-soviet-summit","antisemitism","foreign-policy","jewish-americans"],"audioDurationSec":129,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-114.mp3","bytes":4128768,"durationSec":128.91,"bitrate":256233,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.448Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-114.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-114","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-114","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}