{"conversationCode":"038-133","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":133,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-133","startDateTime":"1973-04-25T02:19:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-25T02:22:00.000Z","startDate":"24-Apr-1973","startTime":"9:19 PM","endDate":"24-Apr-1973","endTime":"9:22 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 24, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:19 pm to 9:22 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-133 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-133\n\nDate: April 24, 1973\nTime: 9:19 pm - 9:22 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n     Art Buchwald’s conversation with Herbert G. Klein\n          -Washington Post story\n\n     Watergate\n          -Washington Star story\n               -John D. Ehrlichman’s conversation with Clark MacGregor\n               -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, Maurice H. Stans, and MacGregor, meeting\n                     Roosevelt room\n               -President’s meeting with Kakuei Tanaka in Hawaii\n               -Committee to Re-elect the President [CRP] investigation\n          -MacGregor’s disagreement with John D. Ehrlichman\n          -Bryce N. Harlow","filename":["038-133.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"038-132","nextCode":"038-134","transcript":[{"start":0.54,"end":5.24,"text":"We got this straightened around."},{"start":5.26,"end":9.89,"text":"It was one of those overheard conversations that never took place apparently."},{"start":9.95,"end":15.27,"text":"Art Buchwald or something said it in a conversation with Klein up there."},{"start":15.31,"end":26.65,"text":"They were having a peer in a Waldorf and a couple post lawyers overheard it and it went from there and Buchwald and Klein have straightened it all out and the story's not running."},{"start":27.28,"end":35.13,"text":"Yeah, but he apparently—I talked to Herb and he said, well, Buckwold was sitting there kidding around, really, you know, the way Buckwold is."},{"start":35.15,"end":39.94,"text":"And Herb said that he put him down."},{"start":40.08,"end":41,"text":"He said, how do you know?"},{"start":41.04,"end":41.9,"text":"How do you know?"},{"start":41.94,"end":42.78,"text":"That type of thing."},{"start":42.84,"end":50.71,"text":"And three lawyers who didn't know Klein apparently overheard it and it spread from there."},{"start":51.79,"end":53.85,"text":"That's how those things happen sometimes."},{"start":53.87,"end":55.99,"text":"What is the situation with regard to that?"},{"start":56.01,"end":60.9,"text":"I see something in the star, that Ehrlichman and... That's the only McGregor thing."},{"start":61,"end":64.34,"text":"I discussed that with you yesterday, didn't I?"},{"start":64.7,"end":65.24,"text":"I don't recall."},{"start":66.08,"end":67.99,"text":"That's the..."},{"start":69.07,"end":74.09,"text":"The thing I discussed with you yesterday was the Haldeman-McGregor stands meeting at Roosevelt Room."},{"start":75.28,"end":80.34,"text":"This story in the star relates to the fact that at the time of the Tanaka meeting,"},{"start":81.01,"end":84.76,"text":"There was discussion for the— Tanaka?"},{"start":84.78,"end":86.84,"text":"When you went to Hawaii."},{"start":88.28,"end":89.14,"text":"Not Tanaka."},{"start":89.16,"end":90.23,"text":"Yes, Tanaka."},{"start":90.25,"end":90.89,"text":"I guess that was it."},{"start":90.91,"end":92.21,"text":"In Hawaii, yes, sir."},{"start":92.23,"end":92.77,"text":"When was that?"},{"start":95.85,"end":97.89,"text":"Oh, boy."},{"start":97.92,"end":98.36,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":99.22,"end":102.4,"text":"That was December, January, I don't know."},{"start":102.44,"end":104.54,"text":"No, it was in October, I think."},{"start":104.56,"end":105.44,"text":"Oh, not before the election."},{"start":107.89,"end":108.97,"text":"Well, maybe it was."},{"start":109.25,"end":109.35,"text":"Okay."},{"start":110.97,"end":112.17,"text":"what was supposed to happen then."},{"start":112.87,"end":121.98,"text":"But Ehrlichman asked—apparently the story says Ehrlichman encouraged the committee to examine themselves as carefully as we could."},{"start":122,"end":125.66,"text":"We had to examine ours here and then to put out a statement."},{"start":125.68,"end":128,"text":"And apparently the story says it never went."},{"start":130.59,"end":132.19,"text":"The story says that he never said that?"},{"start":132.69,"end":135.73,"text":"The story says that the statement was not put out apparently."},{"start":137.25,"end":140.22,"text":"McGregor disagrees with what Ehrlichman said or what?"},{"start":140.99,"end":141.77,"text":"I think so."},{"start":141.87,"end":143.47,"text":"I have not read the story as such."},{"start":143.51,"end":149.54,"text":"I received a report, but I think there's some point of difference between John and McGregor in the story."},{"start":151.92,"end":155.44,"text":"Well, at least John was asking the committee to... To move, yes."},{"start":155.46,"end":157.92,"text":"To move, huh?"},{"start":157.94,"end":160.41,"text":"That's the thrust of the story, yes, sir."},{"start":160.43,"end":168.38,"text":"Burdickman looks pretty good on that one, doesn't he?"},{"start":168.4,"end":168.66,"text":"Yes, he does."},{"start":168.68,"end":170.88,"text":"Well, I'm going to..."},{"start":171.36,"end":173.99,"text":"Get together with Harlow at about 7.30 in the morning."},{"start":174.95,"end":175.17,"text":"Good."},{"start":175.49,"end":176.35,"text":"To get his view."},{"start":176.74,"end":177.72,"text":"Is he available for that person?"},{"start":177.74,"end":179.04,"text":"Well, I have a call in to him now."},{"start":179.06,"end":179.84,"text":"I'm sure he will be."},{"start":180.43,"end":181.61,"text":"His line at home is busy."},{"start":181.63,"end":181.83,"text":"Good."},{"start":182.43,"end":185.26,"text":"He wanted to report on that before your 9.30 meeting, didn't you?"},{"start":185.28,"end":185.68,"text":"Fine."},{"start":185.7,"end":186.46,"text":"If you could get it, yeah."},{"start":186.64,"end":188.12,"text":"Yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed the potential publication of damaging press stories, specifically addressing a rumor involving Herbert Klein and Art Buchwald that was ultimately retracted. The conversation shifted to a Washington Star article concerning internal conflicts between John Ehrlichman and Clark MacGregor regarding the Committee to Re-elect the President's (CRP) investigation of itself. Nixon directed Ziegler to coordinate with Bryce Harlow to secure a briefing on the situation before the President's upcoming morning meeting.","topics":["Watergate","Media relations","John D. Ehrlichman","Clark MacGregor","Bryce N. Harlow","Committee to Re-elect the President"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:39:49.600Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","media-relations","john-d-ehrlichman","clark-macgregor","bryce-n-harlow","committee-to-re-elect-the-president"],"audioDurationSec":196,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-133.mp3","bytes":6289408,"durationSec":196.47,"bitrate":256100,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-133.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-133","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-133","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}