{"conversationCode":"038-161","tapeNumber":38,"conversationNumber":161,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-038-161","startDateTime":"1973-04-26T02:07:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-26T02:12:00.000Z","startDate":"25-Apr-1973","startTime":"9:07 PM","endDate":"25-Apr-1973","endTime":"9:12 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 25, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:07 pm to 9:12 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-161 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 38-161\n\nDate: April 25, 1973\nTime: 9:07 - 9:12 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n     Watergate\n          -Ziegler’s press briefing\n                -Timing of President’s knowledge\n          -Ziegler’s work with press corps\n          -Ziegler’s press briefing\n                -Morning staff meetings\n          -President’s meeting with Henry E. Petersen\n                -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman\n\n     President’s schedule\n           -George P. Shultz\n\n     Washington Star story\n          -Henry A. Kissinger’s meeting with Le Duc Tho\n\f                                         -89-\n\n             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                      Conversation No. 38-161 (cont’d)\n\nPresident’s schedule\n      -Georges J. R. Pompidou meeting\n            -Kissinger\n            -Soviet Union\n                  -Summit\n\nPresident’s investigation of Watergate","filename":["038-161.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"038-160","nextCode":"039-001","transcript":[{"start":0.93,"end":2.25,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":3.15,"end":4.01,"text":"Did you survive the day?"},{"start":4.03,"end":4.97,"text":"Oh, I think so."},{"start":6.59,"end":7.05,"text":"Okay."},{"start":7.93,"end":12.76,"text":"Well, how did you handle things today?"},{"start":12.94,"end":30.36,"text":"I made the point that, you know, we went through a little session on when you were informed and so forth, and I made it clear that, you know, the reports that suggested that you had had previous warnings and so forth back in August of 72 were incorrect."},{"start":30.57,"end":41.55,"text":"went through a litany as to, you know, the summits and so forth, and that took very well, particularly as the guys that I talked to afterwards, you know, reflected on it."},{"start":42.23,"end":52.06,"text":"I spent a lot of time with the press corps today on, you know, the sessions and so forth to try and break through the, ease some of the tension out there, and I think it was good to do."},{"start":52.44,"end":54.18,"text":"And I think I'm going to do more of that tomorrow."},{"start":54.38,"end":54.96,"text":"That's right."},{"start":55.26,"end":63.61,"text":"Uh, main thing, putting out that the president's been on top of this every minute of the day and he's trying to get the bottom of this thing and so forth."},{"start":63.67,"end":63.97,"text":"Right."},{"start":63.99,"end":65.58,"text":"I spent a lot of time today on that."},{"start":66.32,"end":78.49,"text":"And it seems to take, uh, what I'm trying to do is break through the, you know, the tension of, you know, we're trying to hold back or something."},{"start":79.05,"end":79.69,"text":"That's right."},{"start":79.73,"end":81.01,"text":"And it was, I think, helpful."},{"start":81.63,"end":82.75,"text":"And there was a, uh,"},{"start":82.99,"end":90.86,"text":"that came regarding morning staff meetings, which we had stopped two and a half weeks ago, which I think was a setup."},{"start":90.88,"end":92.24,"text":"And I handled it straight."},{"start":92.26,"end":97.87,"text":"It's been a little bit misinterpreted, unfortunately, in Bob's direction."},{"start":100.39,"end":103.36,"text":"Well, they'll be resumed tomorrow."},{"start":104.36,"end":105.18,"text":"Well, fine."},{"start":105.2,"end":105.62,"text":"We shall."},{"start":106.12,"end":106.56,"text":"That's right."},{"start":106.74,"end":107,"text":"Sure."},{"start":107.04,"end":108.41,"text":"We're going right ahead with the business."},{"start":108.43,"end":108.87,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":108.89,"end":109.01,"text":"Sure."},{"start":109.05,"end":110.97,"text":"We've got to stand right where we are right now."},{"start":111.14,"end":115.52,"text":"Because there's no decision that can be made wrong this week."},{"start":116.1,"end":136.33,"text":"You know, I've got to get—I met with Peterson today and went over the whole thing with him and said, Now look, I want—for your information, I said, Henry, I want you to give me a—and he's going to have it by Friday afternoon—a complete analysis of"},{"start":137.06,"end":138.42,"text":"What about Holloman Erichman?"},{"start":138.82,"end":139.66,"text":"What's the situation?"},{"start":139.7,"end":139.86,"text":"Right."},{"start":140.12,"end":140.74,"text":"I need to know."},{"start":141.12,"end":142.27,"text":"I understand that, sure."},{"start":143.31,"end":145.43,"text":"And he said, All right, I'll get it for you."},{"start":148,"end":151.83,"text":"In the meantime, tomorrow I'm going to go forward with the business."},{"start":151.89,"end":156.08,"text":"I'm going to see Schultz in the morning for that should be put out."},{"start":158.42,"end":170.82,"text":"I mentioned today that you had met with Kissinger and we had the Pompidou thing and then of course today we broke into the front page of the Star at least with the, you know, Kissinger meeting with Lee Doctoe and the thing."},{"start":170.9,"end":171.06,"text":"Right."},{"start":171.1,"end":172,"text":"Which was good."},{"start":172.24,"end":173.16,"text":"Keep right at it."},{"start":173.18,"end":174.94,"text":"I tried to get in that direction."},{"start":175.04,"end":177.49,"text":"Did you announce the Pompidou date yet?"},{"start":177.71,"end":179.49,"text":"No, I haven't."},{"start":179.57,"end":183.85,"text":"But you were meeting with Henry and discussing"},{"start":183.83,"end":187.86,"text":"So we're moving, you know, with that feel."},{"start":187.98,"end":198.31,"text":"And I think the more productive time I can spend tomorrow is to stand with these guys."},{"start":198.33,"end":209.08,"text":"And I talked to them a lot today about your intent to get to the bottom of it and the process you're going through, spending a lot of time on the personal investigation."},{"start":209.6,"end":214.97,"text":"You know, while you're doing the other of the government and so forth."},{"start":214.99,"end":216.47,"text":"There's not going to be any cover-up."},{"start":216.49,"end":217.13,"text":"That's right."},{"start":217.15,"end":221.46,"text":"We're trying to get at the bottom of it, and the chips are going to fall where they may."},{"start":221.7,"end":221.98,"text":"That's right."},{"start":222.7,"end":222.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":224.26,"end":225.07,"text":"Okay, Ron."},{"start":225.41,"end":226.71,"text":"It's a complex assessment."},{"start":226.73,"end":230.25,"text":"It's complex and difficult, but there's no easy way at the moment."},{"start":230.65,"end":232.86,"text":"So stand firm for the rest of the week."},{"start":232.88,"end":233.54,"text":"Will you do that?"},{"start":233.56,"end":233.94,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":234.52,"end":235.22,"text":"All right, boy."},{"start":235.45,"end":236.03,"text":"Okay."},{"start":236.07,"end":236.24,"text":"Okay."},{"start":236.25,"end":238.54,"text":"It's hard for you, I know, but doggone it."},{"start":238.56,"end":239.98,"text":"Well, no, that doesn't matter."},{"start":240.22,"end":251.94,"text":"The thing is that the full assessment of this thing, and you say there are no easy decisions, there are no easy choices, but you're approaching it the way you have to."},{"start":252.28,"end":252.98,"text":"Okay, Ron."},{"start":253.34,"end":253.64,"text":"Good."},{"start":254.06,"end":254.18,"text":"Bye."},{"start":254.22,"end":255.94,"text":"Have a good night's sleep, I hope."},{"start":255.97,"end":256.57,"text":"Okay, sir."},{"start":256.59,"end":256.97,"text":"Okay, bye."},{"start":257.17,"end":257.69,"text":"Thanks a lot."},{"start":258.21,"end":258.29,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discuss media strategy regarding the Watergate scandal, focusing on the importance of conveying that the President is actively seeking the truth and maintaining governmental operations. Ziegler reviews his efforts to counter press rumors about the timing of the President's knowledge of the scandal and explains his strategy to ease tensions with the press corps. Nixon directs that daily staff meetings be resumed to project stability and instructs Ziegler to emphasize that the administration is conducting its own investigation without a cover-up.","topics":["Watergate scandal","Ronald Ziegler","Media relations","White House press strategy","Presidential investigations","Henry E. Petersen"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:42:23.630Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate-scandal","ronald-ziegler","media-relations","white-house-press-strategy","presidential-investigations","henry-e-petersen"],"audioDurationSec":262,"audioFiles":[{"file":"038-161.mp3","bytes":8386560,"durationSec":261.97,"bitrate":256104,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.453Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/038-161.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-161","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/38/conversation-038-161","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}