Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 39 › Conversation 039-053

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and John W. Dean III

Sunday, June 3, 1973 · 9:46 PM–9:48 PM ET · White House Telephone · 1 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation039-053 on Tape 39StartSunday, June 3, 1973 at 9:46 PMEndSunday, June 3, 1973 at 9:48 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 039-053 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Ronald Ziegler discussed the motivations behind John W. Dean III's recent actions regarding the Watergate investigation. Ziegler posited that Dean’s behavior was less about personal animosity toward the President and more a product of strategic pressure applied by his legal counsel for defense purposes. Nixon remained skeptical of this assessment, questioning whether Dean’s actions were inherently malicious.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Yeah.

Ron, one thing that occurred to me, just curious, how does this fit in with your theory that you had some time that Dean really wasn't out to get the president, you know, that sort of thing?

It sort of runs contrary to that, doesn't it?

Well, I think it does.

I think his advisers probably are pushing him in this direction.

Yeah.

I don't think his—I still believe that his personality—

and his conviction is out to get the president.

I think most of this is just, excuse me, self-focused and pushed by his advisors.

His lawyers.

His lawyers and others, who probably are out to get the president.

Sure.

And also figure that this is the only way they're going to get him off.

That I think is probably the motive, yes, sir.

Yeah.

Okay, thanks.

But as a man, I don't...

I still believe that he is not out viciously to get the president.

You really think so, huh?

Excuse me, I think so, yes, sir.

Okay.

NARA Description

On June 3, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:46 pm to 9:48 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 039-053 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 39-53

Date: June 3, 1973
Time: 9:46 pm - 9:48 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.
                                              -44-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 39-53 (cont’d)

       Watergate
             -John W. Dean, III
                    -Motive
                          -Lawyers
                          -Ziegler’s assessment

Also recorded on June 4, 1973

039-049 8:18 PM · 47 sec — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo talked on the telephone from 8:18 pm to 8:19 pm.
039-050 8:19 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:19 pm and 9:37 pm.
039-051 9:37 PM · 8 min — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:37 pm to 9:45 pm.
039-052 9:45 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:45 pm and 9:46 pm.
931-001 8:12 AM · 22 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., unknown person(s), and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:12 am to 8:34 am.
039-054 8:51 AM · 19 sec — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 8:51 am to 8:52 am.
441-001 8:51 AM · 18 sec — Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 8:51 am to 8:52 am.
039-055 8:53 AM · 1 min — Alexander M. Haig, Jr., White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:53 am and 9:04 am.

All 103 conversations from June 4, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 039-053, June 4, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/039-053 (accessed October 12, 2026).