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Conversation 039-053

TapeTape 39StartSunday, June 3, 1973 at 9:46 PMEndSunday, June 3, 1973 at 9:48 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Ronald Ziegler discussed the motivations behind John W. Dean III's recent actions regarding the Watergate investigation. Ziegler posited that Dean’s behavior was less about personal animosity toward the President and more a product of strategic pressure applied by his legal counsel for defense purposes. Nixon remained skeptical of this assessment, questioning whether Dean’s actions were inherently malicious.

WatergateJohn W. Dean IIIRonald ZieglerLegal CounselPresidential Strategy
AudioNARA Description

On June 3, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:46 pm to 9:48 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 039-053 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 39-53

Date: June 3, 1973
Time: 9:46 pm - 9:48 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. February-2011)

                                                              Conversation No. 39-53 (cont’d)

       Watergate
             -John W. Dean, III
                    -Motive
                          -Lawyers
                          -Ziegler’s assessment
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Ron, one thing that occurred to me, just curious, how does this fit in with your theory that you had some time that Dean really wasn't out to get the president, you know, that sort of thing?
It sort of runs contrary to that, doesn't it?
Well, I think it does.
I think his advisers probably are pushing him in this direction.
Yeah.
I don't think his—I still believe that his personality—
and his conviction is out to get the president.
I think most of this is just, excuse me, self-focused and pushed by his advisors.
His lawyers.
His lawyers and others, who probably are out to get the president.
Sure.
And also figure that this is the only way they're going to get him off.
That I think is probably the motive, yes, sir.
Yeah.
Okay, thanks.
But as a man, I don't...
I still believe that he is not out viciously to get the president.
You really think so, huh?
Excuse me, I think so, yes, sir.
Okay.
Okay.
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