{"conversationCode":"039-093","tapeNumber":39,"conversationNumber":93,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-039-093","startDateTime":"1973-06-05T21:21:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-06-05T21:25:00.000Z","startDate":"5-Jun-1973","startTime":"5:21 PM","endDate":"5-Jun-1973","endTime":"5:25 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"White House operator; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ford, Gerald R.;","description":"On June 5, 1973, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 5:21 pm to 5:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 039-093 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 39-93\n\nDate: June 5, 1973\nTime: 5:21 pm - 5:25 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe White House operator talked with the President.\n\n       Incoming telephone call\n\nThe President talked with Gerald R. Ford.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 441-19]\n\n       Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s schedule\n             -West Point\n\n       Watergate\n             -Ford’s conversation with Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey\n                    -McCloskey’s forthcoming action\n                    -Ford’s subsequent conversations\n                             -Leslie C. Arends\n                             -Louis C. Wyman\n             -McCloskey\n                    -Forthcoming action\n                             -Administration response\n             -President’s statement\n                    -Republican Congressional leadership meeting\n\n       Melvin R. Laird’s role on White House staff\n             -Telephone call to Ford\n             -Announcement\n                     -Republican Congressional leadership meeting\n                     -President’s meeting with Ford and Hugh Scott\n                     -Possible leak\n\n       Bryce N. Harlow\n             -Role on White House staff\n\f                                             -74-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                               Conversation No. 39-93 (cont’d)\n\n              -Announcement\n                     -Ford\n              -President’s forthcoming conversation with employer [at Procter & Gamble ?]\n                     -Conflict of interest\n                             -Possible effect of leak\n\n       Congressional relations\n             -Laird, Harlow, and Haig\n             -William E. Timmons\n                     -Conversation with Ford\n                             -Criticism\n                     -Ford’s assessment\n                     -President’s forthcoming telephone call","filename":["039-093.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["White House operator","Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ford, Gerald R."],"prevCode":"039-092","nextCode":"039-094","transcript":[{"start":0.52,"end":2.12,"text":"Congressman Ford, sir."},{"start":2.14,"end":3.04,"text":"Hi, Mr. President."},{"start":3.2,"end":3.73,"text":"Hi, Jerry."},{"start":4.21,"end":10.07,"text":"Al had to go up to West Point, so I'm just checking on your friend McCluskey."},{"start":10.34,"end":15.36,"text":"Well, I had about a 15-minute talk with him on the floor of the House."},{"start":16.48,"end":22.19,"text":"And even though we disagree on most things, I have a good rapport with him."},{"start":23.17,"end":26.06,"text":"He is not going to urge that action."},{"start":27,"end":29.36,"text":"He is going to give"},{"start":29.56,"end":36.85,"text":"as I diagnosed his comments to me, a sort of academic discussion."},{"start":38.39,"end":40.99,"text":"He is not going to urge the direct action."},{"start":41.03,"end":48.08,"text":"He is not going to urge the action that would result in a resolution with it being referred to a committee."},{"start":49,"end":59.22,"text":"And after this somewhat lengthy discussion with him, I talked to Les and to one or two others, and it's our general"},{"start":59.41,"end":61.28,"text":"just to ignore it."},{"start":61.52,"end":62.62,"text":"I agree."},{"start":62.64,"end":66.38,"text":"And I talked to Louie Wyman, who, you know, is a charger."},{"start":67.36,"end":67.46,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":67.48,"end":70.78,"text":"And Louie was with me on this other matter a couple years ago."},{"start":71.81,"end":73.11,"text":"Yeah, yeah, I know."},{"start":73.13,"end":76.81,"text":"And I said, Louie, now, follow this line."},{"start":77.55,"end":84.2,"text":"And he said, well, I'm going to be here, and if he starts to get off the track, I'm going to challenge him."},{"start":84.3,"end":85.86,"text":"I said, well, challenge"},{"start":85.99,"end":89.84,"text":"Just don't give him a forum and don't give him an opportunity to get a story."},{"start":90.58,"end":92.42,"text":"I think we can keep him under control."},{"start":92.76,"end":96.65,"text":"Well, whatever it is, it's just another one of those stories that will work out."},{"start":96.99,"end":100.88,"text":"I appreciate your taking it."},{"start":103.48,"end":104.54,"text":"He's not a vicious fellow."},{"start":104.8,"end":111.49,"text":"No, and he just goes off in these clouds."},{"start":111.81,"end":114.17,"text":"If we ignore him, I think it'll be minimal."},{"start":114.39,"end":117.38,"text":"If we challenge him, it'll get blown way out of proportion."},{"start":117.4,"end":117.9,"text":"That's right."},{"start":118.4,"end":119.6,"text":"Big constitutional debate."},{"start":119.92,"end":120.52,"text":"Right."},{"start":120.54,"end":122.88,"text":"Well, as a matter of fact, we got work to do for the country."},{"start":122.9,"end":123.62,"text":"I just heard it."},{"start":123.74,"end":125.91,"text":"And by golly, Jerry, we're going to do it."},{"start":125.92,"end":129.61,"text":"And we're not going to let this Watergate stuff distract us."},{"start":130.17,"end":133.99,"text":"I couldn't agree with you more in your comments at the breakup of the meeting."},{"start":134.79,"end":135.73,"text":"Very apropos."},{"start":136.56,"end":141.7,"text":"And I think we're on the track here of just"},{"start":142.1,"end":149.47,"text":"approach, and I understand Mel called me today, which I think is excellent."},{"start":149.49,"end":151.04,"text":"Well, I knew you'd be pleased."},{"start":151.06,"end":157.59,"text":"I couldn't mention it in the larger group, and I frankly, between you and me, I didn't want to mention it when you and Scott were there."},{"start":157.65,"end":160.63,"text":"I'm glad you didn't, because I know why you didn't."},{"start":160.67,"end":161.39,"text":"You know why."},{"start":161.41,"end":162.19,"text":"It leaked."},{"start":162.21,"end":162.71,"text":"Not from you."},{"start":163.09,"end":163.44,"text":"Right."},{"start":163.46,"end":165.04,"text":"Well, I couldn't"},{"start":165.66,"end":170,"text":"A better setup than he described just how you were trying to put it together."},{"start":170.33,"end":170.45,"text":"Yep."},{"start":170.47,"end":178.38,"text":"He will be the counselor to the president for domestic affairs, and he will be more of an outside, and he'll work on an inside man."},{"start":178.46,"end":183.8,"text":"Also, for your very confidential information, we're going to get Bryce back July 1st."},{"start":183.88,"end":184,"text":"Great."},{"start":184.49,"end":191.79,"text":"Now, on the Bryce thing, that's got to be just between you and me because he has a horrific conflict of interest problem, and I've got to speak to his boss about it."},{"start":192.02,"end":193.66,"text":"If it ever leaked out, it'll blow that up."},{"start":193.91,"end":202.62,"text":"But you see, with Mel and Bryce and Al, we'll have a team there that more can handle that."},{"start":202.68,"end":205.24,"text":"Congressman Timmons and his group will still do all the legwork."},{"start":205.28,"end":209.63,"text":"But I really think you've got a great team, which will really be better than the one we had before."},{"start":210.33,"end":215.39,"text":"I'm glad you mentioned Bill, because I said to him after the meeting that I thought this was great."},{"start":215.86,"end":221.5,"text":"And Bill said, gee, it looked like you all were criticizing me and our operation."},{"start":221.56,"end":224.71,"text":"I said, Bill, that wasn't."},{"start":225.01,"end":227.83,"text":"our intent, and I'll tell the president when I see him."},{"start":227.85,"end":228.19,"text":"Sure."},{"start":228.21,"end":228.61,"text":"I knew that."},{"start":228.91,"end":235.16,"text":"As a matter of fact, I'd look over there to him and do that, mainly because these guys have got to think that I'm acting on it, see?"},{"start":235.18,"end":235.3,"text":"Right."},{"start":235.32,"end":235.84,"text":"And we are."},{"start":235.94,"end":236.3,"text":"We are."},{"start":236.48,"end":238.86,"text":"Well, he does a hell of a good job."},{"start":238.88,"end":245.93,"text":"And incidentally, you ought to see every paper that comes in here that's got Timmons either for or against me, because he's a real fighter."},{"start":246.23,"end":246.85,"text":"I agree."},{"start":246.87,"end":253.26,"text":"And give him a little pat on the back, because he thought this morning that we were being critical of him."},{"start":253.58,"end":253.68,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":253.93,"end":255.57,"text":"All right, I'll give him a call."},{"start":255.69,"end":255.85,"text":"Okay."},{"start":255.95,"end":256.78,"text":"Fine, thank you."},{"start":256.84,"end":257.57,"text":"Good to talk to you."},{"start":258.07,"end":258.27,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Congressman Gerald Ford discussed strategies to neutralize potential political disruption from Representative Pete McCloskey regarding Watergate-related initiatives by choosing to ignore his actions. The pair also reviewed ongoing personnel shifts, specifically the hiring of Melvin Laird and the sensitive, confidential return of Bryce Harlow to the White House staff. Additionally, Nixon agreed to contact William Timmons to clarify that recent leadership discussions were not intended as a criticism of his congressional relations efforts.","topics":["Watergate","Congressional relations","Personnel management","Pete McCloskey","Melvin Laird","Bryce Harlow"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T05:51:13.787Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","congressional-relations","personnel-management","pete-mccloskey","melvin-laird","bryce-harlow"],"audioDurationSec":264,"audioFiles":[{"file":"039-093.mp3","bytes":8450048,"durationSec":263.96,"bitrate":256100,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.070Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:42.810Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/039-093.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/039-093","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/39/conversation-039-093","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}