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Conversation 040-095

TapeTape 40StartWednesday, June 13, 1973 at 10:32 PMEndWednesday, June 13, 1973 at 10:39 PMParticipantsColson, Charles W.;  Nixon, Richard M. (President)Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On June 13, 1973, Charles W. Colson and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 10:32 pm to 10:39 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 040-095 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 40-95

Date: June 13, 1973
Time: 10:32 pm - 10:39 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Charles W. Colson talked with the President.

     Louis P. Harris
          -Previous conversation with President
          -President’s conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                -Contracts with Harris and Albert E. Sindlinger
                -George H. W. Bush
                Harris and Sindlinger’s support for President
          -Position
          -Conversation with Colson
                -National mood
                      -Leonid I. Brezhnev visit
                      -President’s speech on economy
                            -Harris’s enthusiasm
                      -Watergate

     President’s speech on the economy
           -Sindlinger’s response
                 -Phase IV
                 -George P. Shultz
                        -Position
                        -President’s opposition
                 -Herbert Stein
                        -Position
                        -President’s opposition
           -Sindlinger’s position on President’s policies
           -Stein and Shultz’s position
                 -Disagreements with President
           -Sindlinger
           -Harris
           -Colson
                 -Politics
           -Public confidence
                                         -79-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                   (rev. March-2011)

           -Watergate
           -Food price inflation

National economy
     -Stock exchange member firms
           -New York, Houston
     -Colson’s meeting with Brokers, June 12
           -Watergate
           -Stock broker enthusiasm for President’s economic plans

Watergate
     -Press coverage
     -President’s reaction
                        -Compared to Lyndon B. Johnson, John F. Kennedy, Dwight D.
             Eisenhower, Harry S. Truman and Franklin D. Roosevelt
     -Press
     -Popular opinion
           -Silent Majority
     -Cover-up
           -Press coverage
     -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh
     -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
     -L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III
     -Consequences
     -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] comparison
     -Compared to Robert L. Vesco case
           -Prosecution
     -ITT and Vesco vases
           -Need for White House statement
                  -Public Relations [PR]
     -Elliott L. Richardson
           -Tenure
           -Actions
           -President’s role
           -Washington Post and New York Times
           -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s response
     -Haig
           -Colson’s support

President’s speech on the economy
                                             -80-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. March-2011)

           -Effect
           -Julie Nixon Eisenhower’s opinion
           -President’s tone
                  -Cockiness

     Watergate
          -Press portrayal of President
                -New York Times
                      -Washington Post
                      -Television [TV] networks
                      -Response
                             -TV speeches, press conferences
          -John W. Dean, III
                -Transactional immunity
                      -Effect
                -Possible attacks
                      -Colson
                      -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
                      -Question of Maurice H. Stans
                      -Edward J. Gurney
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. Collison calling you, sir.
Yeah.
Hello.
Hope they gave you time to eat, Mr. President.
Oh, yes.
The reason I talked to Harris is that he had called in here, so I talked to him a little.
And the second thing I want you to know that I'm going to tell Al tomorrow that...
They should give Harris and Senninger the, you know, the contracts.
Oh, absolutely.
Those two fellows.
Just be sure that he knows, and also tell little Georgie Bush that that's what he's supposed to do.
Instead of giving it to somebody, they're going to help us.
We really should, because those two fellows have stayed with us.
Fine.
In particular, have stayed with us.
Harris has stayed with us.
He's all right.
He just told me after he talked to you, he said that they apparently put him through to you while I was trying to get him.
Right.
I told him that he wouldn't have to take your call.
Well, he said the mood of the country is turning around.
He said with the Brezhnev thing and this night, which he thought was just beautiful, as he probably told you, we'll begin to drown out the Watergate and begin to wash it away.
Well...
But he was very glad that you weren't definitive about phase four, because he thinks you need a couple of months to... That's right, we do.
...see how it's going to work.
He was delighted that Schultz had been overwritten, which he knew was the case.
I did overwrite him, and I tried to ask Schultz and Stein...
Oh, he said Stein was worse than Schultz.
Of course, they've all been down.
You know, he's really been lobbying with no commercial interest.
He just wants to help us.
I know.
He's far, so.
Oh, good.
And so it's Stein and Schultz.
They just, you know, they disagree.
Well, they're...
Theoretically, I agree with him also.
But, you know, it's not...
It's Harris.
But Senlinger knew that this was the right thing to do, didn't he?
Oh, absolutely.
Both Senlinger and Harris and I, all three of us, have the feeling that this is not an economic problem.
It's a political problem.
It's a confidence problem.
And incidentally, Chuck...
If we didn't have Watergate, it'd still be a problem.
Yes, it would.
Do you realize that?
Yes, it would.
Good God, with that kind of 50% inflation in food, everybody's going to be worried.
In some ways, Mr. President, it might be more of a problem without Watergate.
Because that's all they'd be talking about.
Yeah, I started, when we talked earlier tonight, I was going to tell you we had 60 smaller New York Stock Exchange member firms, but from all around the country, Houston.
Yeah, they're all worried about it.
Stock has changed in a hell of a shape for other reasons, of course.
That's right.
But these fellows, I gave them a little pep talk yesterday morning.
We had them in, and I told them about Watergate, and I told them that's the fact you hadn't been involved.
Yeah.
My God, they came running up to me afterwards.
They said, that's the greatest thing.
All the country needs right now is just a little bit of reassurance.
It's very volatile.
The Watergate thing, of course, has been so terribly irresponsibly handled by the press, and I can't say anything.
I'm not going to make another reference to it.
Believe me, I don't care what anybody says.
The hell with it.
The president can't defend himself.
Good God, Johnson never defended himself.
Eisenhower didn't defend himself.
Kennedy never defended himself, and Truman didn't.
And Roosevelt didn't.
Good God, when Roosevelt's kid went off and got that $75,000 loan, you remember?
Yeah, I sure do.
Nobody paid a bit of attention.
This business of attacking the president has got to stop.
And as far as this press corps, they can go to hell.
Oh, sure.
The hell with them.
Mr. President, the great silent majority see right through it.
My God, if you could see the mail that I've...
Yeah, on your program, yeah.
Of course.
They don't want the president to be destroyed.
Yeah.
We've been on the defense for two months.
Because basically, you see, they were right in a sense.
There was a cover-up, let's face it.
But on the other hand, they have built up first the crime and the cover-up to unbelievable things.
And, of course, the fact that people had to leave, a number of them, good God.
I mean, an undersecretary like Crowe, good heavens, it's a tragedy.
Not to mention Haldeman and Ehrlichman and the head of the FBI, you know, that poor, stupid Gray.
Good God, he shouldn't have to go.
Why the hell did he burn those papers?
Terrible personal trip.
Good God, he should have, you know, he's an honest man.
He just did a stupid thing.
Bad judgment.
I know, but my point is that all of this indicates there's a widespread, as they say, the greatest...
You know, corruption in history, that's baloney.
Nobody stole anything.
Take ITT.
ITT didn't make any money out of this.
Take Vesco.
Vesco didn't make any money.
We're prosecuting them.
The whole point about this, nobody has made any money, and I haven't seen one of our little boys make that point.
Well, a few of us have been trying to make it.
I know, I know, I know.
ITT stuff.
I just wanted you to know that.
Take ITT and Vesco.
These two companies are being rigorously and viciously prosecuted.
Now, little Elliot ought to make that point.
And God damn it, if he doesn't, I'm inclined to let him go in about one month, really.
I really am pretty pissed off.
Yeah, I would say, Mr. President, that as soon as the mood in the country stabilizes a little bit, what you've got now is a...
I know.
An unsettling feeling, and you don't want to do anything that... No, I can't let him go now.
No.
But as soon as you can, as far as I'm concerned, tell me what he has said in the last 30 days.
It's not been good.
I mean, he has not stood up for the president.
And under the circumstances, he's got to go.
Well, the point of the matter is that it's not only standing up for the president.
I...
I'll do that to my grave.
Yeah.
But it's standing up for the country.
I know.
And he knows better.
God damn it, Elliot knows I'm not involved in what never was.
And he's playing to the Washington Post and the New York Times.
That's right.
And he's not going to get away with it.
Boy, you ought to hear Hagan.
He's so furious.
Thank God for Alan.
I just like having Alan.
He's good.
Oh, God.
Well, he's tough, and he's sharp, and he's incisive, and he has all the right skills.
Well, anyway, we got this done, and keep the faith, old boy.
The most important thing, Mr. President, is you're out front, and that's the key to this.
Yeah, as Julie said, he said, as I told you earlier, she said, you looked almost cocky, and I said, that's good.
You did.
You did.
I didn't mean to, but I just stuck it out there.
Well, it wasn't cocky, but it's confident, and it's in charge, and that's what the American people need to see.
That's right.
Because they read the New York Times, the Washington Post, they hear the networks, and they think the president is beleaguered and worried and defensive, and it's all bull.
It's never been true, but the only way we can disprove it is going to television now and then.
Yeah, and you have to do it on other issues.
You cannot do it defensively.
Of course.
That's why a press conference would be a disaster.
That's right.
You go on a press conference, you talk about Watergate all the time.
Here was my issue.
That's right.
But you agree?
You started upbeat, and you ended upbeat.
And it was just the right tone, just the way you want to do it.
Right.
but we'll we'll knock him on their ass on what occasion by god we will you depend on you and the other guys to do that we'll fight that one and that little bean he's got a problem that little son of a bitch not having gotten transactional immunity he's really on a tight wire isn't he yeah and it destroys his credibility because it's so easy to cut him apart i mean well it's somebody but who the hell is going to do it oh i am you are but who's going to do it in the committee
Uh, I think, oh, I think you may find Baker did quite a turnaround today on, finally, he came out of the show.
He's getting mail from home, and so is Darney.
You're damn right.
Right.
They know where Middle America is.
They're 100% sure.
Good.
Well, keep after him, old boy.
We'll keep the fight on.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. President.
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