Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Hello?

Yeah.

I was receiving diplomatic credentials, so I couldn't return your call.

Other important things, huh?

Oh, yeah, what the heck.

Yeah, got seven of them today.

Oh, I cleaned up.

I'm sorry to bother you, but... No, perfectly all right.

I'll give you a quick report on...

I talked with Hoag.

Yeah.

And he said that he had not gotten back to me because he had...

uh been trying to figure this thing out and that his feeling was that he couldn't find a way to accept the suggestion because he didn't think that under the circumstances john or i were the ones to organize your material because we were in a biased position and i said that i had probably missed

or maybe he was misunderstanding the point i was raising was not that that we would organize your watergate materials although we could you know cover the file on that but that uh you had told me to tell him which i had not done that that you had certain

substantial other files, and I didn't say what they were, that you would not be willing to let anyone else go into and that would cover the matters of the whole first term, not simply the Watergate matter, in fact, not the Watergate matter at all.

Yeah, we'd stay out of that altogether.

And he said, well, okay, that might be different.

And he said, I think that I probably better do what you suggested and talk with the president about it.

And I said that that would be fine, that I didn't know what problems there'd be because of your

leaving for Illinois tomorrow and California after that.

And I said, did I

you would the president would be happy to talk with him on the phone about it if he wanted to do that at some point and so he said he would try to reach you well he did reach me and uh he wanted this one to come in to see me about it and talk about it apparently you know what i mean he probably just liked that idea i told him i couldn't do it tomorrow because we leave for illinois at nine o'clock unfortunately right and uh as a matter of fact uh in terms of the time if that's a factor i was going to have him

They come to California right after I get Brezhnev.

In other words, I'm there one week.

I mean, I'm through Monday with Brezhnev.

How's that sound to you?

Anything's fine, Mr. President.

I mean, there's no—if there's not— Waste a minute on this kind of crap.

No, no, it's not crap.

But what I meant is that time is not of the essence here.

The main thing is that I'll get to him, and I'll talk to him the whole thing.

I think it's the best thing if I can sit down and tell him what I have in mind.

Okay.

And he may want to do it with me alone.

If that's the case, I'll do it with him.

And I hope he isn't so dumb to think that what we have in mind is for you, John, to write up the Watergate stuff.

Who the hell?

I'm not going to let anybody write that up.

I mean, that's another story.

That'll be written enough by 18 umpteen other things.

What we want is the first four years.

Far more important, China, Russia, you know, May 8th, huh?

Yep.

And some of the other things we did.

Well, that's it.

There's an awful lot.

Enormous amount of great material there.

That we can pull together.

That's right.

Get organized.

And get going on right now.

Yep.

That's right.

that's right that's right right well i got the i got the picture and picture and i wanted you sure sure well i i he had gotten me he called before as a matter of fact i talked to him about 10 minutes ago because your line was busy and somebody said that he had called and so i called him back and then i talked to you right so uh we're really on the call i wanted to post you on my call with him and uh

You know, it might work out.

If it doesn't, why will... Well, let me... Well, something's going to work out, because that fire... Somebody's got to go through that stuff, and I'm not going to do it.

Yeah.

I'm not going to do it.

It's too much work.

Too much work.

Don't worry about it.

And also, also, John can do an awful lot, too, because he's got an enormous amount of material, you know.

That's right.

Like, even take the firing of Hickle, things like that.

There's some fascinating material in there.

I wish we had really another more sophisticated publisher in this respect.

You know, gosh, it's too bad they're all on the left.

There's no problem with that.

Publishers are pretty interested.

The problem is getting one we can trust.

Oh, yes, that's right.

That's right.

I don't know if we can control that by what we write.

Somebody on the right.

That's right.

Let's give some thought to it and look over the publisher list a bit.

Okay.

And so we can do that.

Fine.

That's where she is.

So we won't bother you now.

I'm heading for California or heading for Minneapolis tomorrow and then California on Monday.

Minneapolis, yeah.

Our daughter graduates Saturday night.

Oh, that's great.

She's the one that's got those marvelous grades and everything.

Let's give her my congratulations and very best wishes.

I hope she's doing the best.

what's uh i haven't followed the thing what's what's it's magruder up the day or stands and he's lobbing some very rough stuff he's just totally wiped mitchell out and he's totally wiped gordon strawn out which is going to be tough to deal with yeah and it's kind of interesting because he's covered stuff with strong if it's true that i had absolutely no knowledge of that will be

I wonder if he's doing this for purposes of getting his rap reduced.

Is that what it is?

Yeah.

Good heavens.

Why does he have to?

Remember we were sitting here that day in the office, and you brought over that thing, and he said he wasn't going to sing about you or not hurt you or something?

No.

Oh, and he hasn't?

He hasn't yet, huh?

They keep tying it to me, and every time they say, well, that means Mr. Haldeman knew, he says, I don't know that.

I did not.

give Mr. Holloman any of this information.

I don't know that he got any.

Because he did give it all to Strachan.

And he says he met with me in January and told me about the cover-up, which I don't think is the case either.

I met with him in February, but not on the cover-up.

It was when he was looking for a job.

Not with you in January, yeah.

Thank God.

You know, we all have little things to be thankful for, and it's thank heavens that you and John were so good the way that... You know, I didn't meet any of these people, fortunately, except Brother Dean.

Yep.

It's a good thing, isn't it?

Sure was.

Because you never know what they would have said to me.

That's the thing.

I don't know what... And also, you never know what they would say, even though... What they would say they said.

Yeah.

Are they pushing him on what he told me?

Nope.

Plotly said that he has absolutely no communication with you and no knowledge that you can do anything.

The only way they'll get to you is to try to get to me.

Sure.

They're going to try and prove I knew it.

He's really hit strong, huh?

Yeah, very hard.

He knew all about everything step by step.

Knew the plan, knew when they broke in the first time, knew what the results were.

What's he done to Mitchell?

He just has him into it, totally, in the planning and the knowledge of the step.

What about Dean?

Dean in it, totally.

He just completely clobbered Dean.

He did, huh?

Just totally.

Yeah.

Totally.

He doesn't like Dean.

Obviously.

And how does he get him in?

Does he get him in?

He says he was in on everything.

Well, mainly in the cover-up.

He does get him in on the pre-knowledge, I don't think.

Not so much.

No.

cover-up that Dean was there.

Ehrlichman, did he hit him?

Nope, not at all.

Not at all.

Not even a brush on him.

He had no contact with him.

Is anybody on the committee asking about, cross-examining him about his previous stories and why he changed it and so forth?

Not very much.

He's pretty much covered that, that, you know, he

Oh, I see.

He decided to tell the truth.

That's right.

He told about how Dean and he and Mitchell met and they agreed as to how he was to testify.

A subordination of perjury.

Yeah, he went into all that.

He did, huh?

Yep.

He goes into all the details of what they agreed to say and all that.

He covered that totally.

That's highly believable.

Oh, yeah.

Well, all in all, I think that's fine.

I know we've got some stuff on the economic side.

I think that knowing that the Congress is about ready to send me a 90-day total freeze on everything, that I think I did the right thing last night.

Oh, yeah.

And it was done very well.

I think that it looked like a very big, you know, a lot of action, getting a lot of things done, and that had a...

I think it was a very good effect.

Showed the leadership quality.

I think, Bob, that's what everybody, I think, didn't you feel so?

Yep, and that's what you need.

And I deliberately, I delivered it in a very, Julie said, you said it was almost cocky, and that's what you need to be.

It was good.

Maybe that's what she wanted.

It was good.

Very good.

When do you think they'll get you back, these jackasses?

I don't think until the end of July.

End of July?

I don't think so.

Oh, let's see.

They won't finish Magruder today, will they?

I don't know.

I can go with him again tomorrow.

Well, they won't meet tomorrow.

They'll have him on Tuesday.

And then they start Dean, and he'll take at least all of next week.

Yeah.

And then the following week is Fourth of July recess.

Well, they won't be here then, no.

And then the week after that, they'll have Kambach and...

I don't think they'll get Ehrlichman until July 23rd.

Or, no, let's see, whatever it is.

24th.

7th or something.

I don't know.

It'll be late.

In July before they get us.

It's going to be a long, hot summer.

Well, what the heck.

The dummy stands did very well.

Sure did.

They said he just waited out there like a trooper.

He gave a beautiful closing statement.

I heard that, that it really shook people.

And that Gurney stood up, they said.

He took Irvin on at one point.

Well, at least one point.

Irvin is a real jackass.

Oh, yeah, he's just awful.

Not so pleased with himself.

Pompous and... Oh, yes.

Entering to the press.

He's really...

Treating himself.

Yeah.

That's exactly it.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I'll tell you, just after you read your little pamphlet again, it's gonna...

I honestly feel it's gonna come out, you know?

No question.

Yeah.

What do you think?

I absolutely do.

I feel it myself that...

uh just the very fact that we started to make some significant moves now and announcing things that's good isn't it absolutely we've got henry came off well in paris which was good yep so what the heck that's up that's yeah that would be good okay very good thank you and i'll talk to home but it won't be for at least a week to 10 days that's fine probably 10 days all right bye okay

Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 14, 1973

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