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Conversation 041-045

TapeTape 41StartFriday, June 22, 1973 at 2:02 PMEndFriday, June 22, 1973 at 2:08 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On June 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 2:02 pm to 2:08 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 041-045 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 41-45

Date: June 22, 1973
Time: 2:02 pm - 2:08 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                                            -27-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    (rev. November-2012)

                                                             Conversation No. 41-45 (cont’d)

[See also Conversation No. 448-7]

     President’s agreement with Leonid I. Brezhnev an use of nuclear weapons
           -Reaction
           -John F. Kennedy’s administration
                 -Use of threat of force
           Provisions
                 -Effect of US
                 -Restraint
                       -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                       -“Brezhnev Doctrine”
           -Reaction
                 -Henry A. Kissinger
                       -Political risk of agreement
           -Achievements of the administration
           -Reaction
                 -New York Times, Washington Post, Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
                 -Watergate
                 -J. William Fulbright
                       -Reaction
                 -Network television [TV]
                       -Dan Rather
                       -Thomas E. Jarriel
                              -American Broadcasting Company [ABC]
                       -Sarah McClendon
                       -Mood
           -President’s conversation with Kissinger
                 -Kissinger’s forthcoming briefing
                       -Treaty
                       -Will of the parties

     President’s meetings with Brezhnev
           -Haig description
           -Reaction
                 -Rather
                       -President’s accomplishments

     President’s opponents
                                             -28-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    (rev. November-2012)

                                                             Conversation No. 41-45 (cont’d)

     President agreement with Brezhnev
           -Reaction
                 -Robert S. McNamara
                       -Government service
                 -Fulbright, Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
                       -PRC

     White House staff
          -Haig’s meeting with J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
          -Meetings
                -Melvin R. Laird
                -Momentum
          -Role of deputies
          -Laird’s role
                -US Congress
                -Laird’s assessment of administration
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Mr. President?
Well, what did you think of that?
I'll tell you, that was a smash-a-roo.
Any thoughts on it?
There wasn't a guy that walked out of there that wasn't shaking his head.
It was a glow around that place that was something to behold.
Well, you and I know the pragmatic things, but basically, think of five years ago or four years ago or three years ago.
During the whole Kennedy regime, which they all loved, two years ago even, such a thing could have occurred.
Or even one year ago.
That's the thing to get across.
Good God, this is a hell of an achievement.
The Soviets have agreed threats of force or the use of force against the U.S. or anybody.
Ally or friend breaks this agreement.
This is a hell of a, you know, this is a restraint on us.
We'd never do it anyway.
It's a hell of a restraint on them.
They've abrogated their very lifestyle.
The Brezhnev Doctrine is abrogated.
Their conquest of the world is abrogated.
the whole damn thing is done for the moment.
Now, Henry was sort of moaning about the fact that somebody said this is like being for motherhood.
Bullshit.
The Soviet wouldn't agree with us unless they made a command decision they had to get along with us for a while.
That's exactly right.
And now they've got a commitment that it's just damn difficult to back out of.
I think this is one of the high points of this administration.
It's all possible because of the earlier decisions.
That's right.
Well, you mustn't worry, though, and be sure to hold Henry's hand when the Times pisses on it and the Post pisses on it and Walter Cronkite and all the rest.
I don't think they will.
You don't think so?
I think they will, Al.
Because basically, they will do it because they're so overcome and obsessed with the goddamn Watergate thing, and they've got this...
I heard Holmreich's reaction.
For God's sake, the guy, I thought he was going to take off on Cambodia the first step, and he's worried about MFN.
Thank God.
Where we could all agree.
That's right.
Well, anyway, if they do, it's irrelevant.
The point is that the country will, I think, eventually understand that something important has happened.
I mean, the networks are going to have a very difficult time indicating that something important has not happened.
Don't you think so?
When you talk to these press, they are absolutely really impressed.
Yes, sir.
Who did you talk to?
Al Rather and the other TV guy, ABC, Gerald.
I'm Gerald, yeah.
The gals, Sarah McClendon and the other gals, they're just all...
impressed by the agreement or the attitude of the mood i think mostly the mood i just told henry had to go back and brief and say that every war started by breaking the treaty which i told the leaders today so the treaty doesn't mean anything not the words but i said the important thing is
Treaty is only as good as the will of parties to keep it, and what this week demonstrates is that the two leaders indicate a desire and intention to keep the treaty.
Exactly, exactly.
And that's the big thing about this visit that we've got to get across.
But there's another achievement here, too, sir.
And that is that, by God, there you are with the top leader of the enemy camp.
That's right.
Sitting there in personal rapport, totally in control.
Inhibited affected by the crap in town here and don't you think people are picking that up?
Are they picking it up or not?
Sure.
In fact, that's what they were talking about on the air this morning.
Not publicly or no?
No, on the air this morning.
Rather went into it.
He said, this is a week of great accomplishment for the administration.
President has achieved things that could not have been achieved by any other administration.
You know, this is from that guy.
uh i think i really think this has turned it now i uh it hasn't it hasn't well they can't nevertheless crap around a bit more and we'll just turn on them that's right that's exactly right they may have to do you know bob mcnamara came soldering up to me after this thing he said al i want you he said you know my political affiliations and the president does he said but i tell you
This is the highlight of my government service today.
He said that?
Yeah.
And he said, you tell the president everything I can do.
I'm ready to stand there.
I'm ready to move.
He's a peacenik, so maybe he understands this damn thing.
That's all right.
Look, I don't care why they understand it, even the Fulbright.
And a man's felt it protects China.
Exactly.
What the hell reason?
Why do we care?
no i think this is that was and the way this capped off the week is just beautiful tell me uh we're getting ahead with the with bazaar and we're meeting here in five minutes and we're going to have it all laid on we've moved on the internal side of the staff which is going to augment this thing right with the right guys for the right things and i expect to see real progress and we're going to keep running a staff meeting every morning while we're away
Mel and my man will work it together, and we're just going to keep this thing humming here.
That's been one of our problems in the past.
Sometimes a little gap develops.
Leave, there's nobody here.
That's right.
The continuity must be all the time.
They've got to know that if somebody leaves, the deputy's in charge.
That's right.
That's very important.
I've talked to Mel about it.
He knows that you're holding him responsible for handling the Congress this week, this legislation.
He feels that he's elated.
He thinks we're in great shape.
Is he really?
Yeah.
Good.
Okay, I'll find my president.
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