Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 41 › Conversation 041-061
Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and Media bias
Wednesday, July 11, 1973 · 2:28 PM–2:34 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discuss media coverage of the Watergate hearings, specifically expressing frustration that the television networks provided John Dean five days of coverage while limiting John Mitchell to one. They strategize on ways to pressure the media by highlighting perceived biases and reporting false constituent outrage to network executives. Additionally, they review the status of upcoming testimonies, including those of Richard A. Moore and Herbert Kalmbach, while denigrating the conduct of Senator Howard Baker.
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So, Ron, it occurred to me that one of our boys probably thought of this, but probably nothing would be done.
But you didn't mention the fact, I just learned it, that you know they carried Dean on three networks for five days straight.
Oh, absolutely.
So they're carrying Mitchell by one.
Sure.
I understand the reason for that was that when they met with him, they determined that his testimony was not going to be damaging enough to the president.
Has anybody thought to do anything, to suggest something to one of the networks that we're aware of the screwing we're getting, or do we just forget that sort of thing?
No, no, we don't forget that, and I've done that already.
Who do you do it to?
Well, I've talked to the people here about it, and I've also been mentioning that to press guys, which I just did with William S. White.
realize that it's a little queer.
Oh, sure.
Absolutely.
Here's the major one.
So forth and so on and so on.
Well, it just shows you what we're up against, I guess.
But this is one time when I put Klaus and the bomb throwers to work on a thing like that.
Let them bitch a little.
Well, Ken was in a meeting here with me, and these are things we're thinking about, and I know that you can't be obvious and mean and rough and so forth, but there are ways, Ron, not to let them think that we just aren't aware of being totally screwed.
It's a matter of pride.
I just don't want them to feel that.
They're not going to change a thing.
It's just well to let them know, you know?
Well, as I say, we have done that.
I've done it with the people here.
I've done it with Small at CBS.
It's very, you know, just a shot across the bell type of thing.
You might say we're getting scores of calls in here about this, protesting wires.
Put that out.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Okay.
I had a good lunch with White.
Yeah.
Oh, he's a good man.
There's no question about the fact that people realize that...
Uh, this thing is passing quickly.
White was very complimentary of Mitchell.
White also was heavily, heavily, almost emotionally supportive of your letter.
Yeah.
Uh, and, uh...
The one thing, of course, White would probably be worried about is about that bugging and so forth.
Hell, I was the one that stopped from putting that out.
Yeah, we moved a little of that with it, too.
Sure, sure.
And I knew the darn plane was bugged.
We didn't want to embarrass the FBI or Johnson.
I also mentioned that you were under great pressure, never-growing pressure, to put out the information that you have on the bugging in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations.
All right.
Good.
Fired that out there a little.
Go ahead, Moore.
Good.
Mitchell continues to do a good job.
Dick Moore is the first witness tomorrow, as I mentioned to you.
I'll borrow Dick.
Dick will be fine.
He won't be very articulate, but he'll be very believable, I think.
Yes, sir.
And that Baker, I'll never forgive that little.
Never.
Never.
Never.
Worse and worse, they tell me.
All right.
Quite frankly, I haven't followed that character.
But the impression is that Baker is not, I'd say, marginal.
Reflective of the same pusillanimous attitude he's carried throughout.
Who's after him now?
No, it's, in a way, it's questioning him now.
Oh, yeah.
I just was told Irvin's beginning to question him now.
That would be a nice battle.
He'll do all right with Irvin.
With Irvin?
He can kill him.
Irvin's not that smart.
I mean, he may have been in his younger years, but he's 77, forgetful, and, you know, these poses and all that sort of thing.
Mitchell will do very well with Irvin.
I think so.
They may finish with Mitchell today, won't they?
Sure.
And I think...
They don't want him on there very long, do they?
That's what it seems to me.
Well, two days, right?
No, but for God's sake, he had Dean five days.
That's right.
Now, why don't they want Mitchell on?
You know why.
They don't want a good witness on that long.
Trying to get him the hell off of there.
Sure, well, I'm sure of that.
I mean, that's a political move.
Yeah.
It would be a political move.
Sure, sure.
More is tomorrow.
That's Thursday.
And who's the next day?
I don't know.
It'll take more than one day.
More will be just today, I'm sure.
And after that, who do they have?
Well, then they haven't announced it, but they'll probably move to Kambach or someone like that.
Wrap up the week in that fashion, sir.
Yeah, yeah.
And you still have the reports to the effect that they may get Hallam and Erbichman on before the end of the month, huh?
That's the report we have, yes.
Yeah.
Bazaar feels that's quite solid, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
How does Bazaar feel about Mitchell's testimony?
Everyone feels very good about it.
Yeah, but how does he feel?
He's an expert.
Bazaar feels good about it, sir.
Yeah, he's analyzed it and that sort of thing.
Yes, sir.
Did my discussions with Bazaar?
Yeah.
Got it.
Feels it's going well.
NARA Description
On July 11, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 2:28 pm to 2:34 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 041-061 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 41-61
Date: July 11, 1973
Time: 2:28 pm - 2:34 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.
Watergate
-Network
-Ervin Committee
-John N. Mitchell’s testimony
-John W. Dean, III’s testimony
-Ziegler’s conversation with William S. White
-Kenneth W. Clawson
-Ziegler’s conversation with William Small of Columbia Broadcasting
System [CBS]
-Ziegler’s lunch with White
-Mitchell
-President’s letter
-Bugging
1968 campaign
-Lyndon B. Johnson
-John F. Kennedy
-Ervin Committee hearings
-Mitchell’s testimony
-Richard A. Moore’s forthcoming testimony
-Howard H. Baker, Jr.
-Conduct
-Mitchell’s testimony
-Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
-Daniel K. Inouye
-Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
-Mitchell’s testimony
-Duration
-Compared to Dean
-Schedule
-Moore
-Herbert W. Kalmbach
-41-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 41-61 (cont’d)
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman
-J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.’s view
-Mitchell’s testimony
-Buzhardt’s viewAlso recorded on July 11, 1973
- 041-060 1:10 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:10 pm and 2:28 pm.
- 448-015 1:20 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:20 pm and 2:51 pm.
- 448-016 1:20 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:20 pm and 2:51 pm.
- 448-017 2:28 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:28 pm to 2:34 pm.
- 448-018 2:34 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:34 pm and 3:00 pm.
- 448-019 2:34 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:34 pm and 3:00 pm.
- 948-011 3:00 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 3:03 pm.
- 948-012 3:03 PM · 1 hr 18 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John B. Connally, Rose Mary Woods, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:03 pm to 4:22 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 041-061, July 11, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/041-061 (accessed October 10, 2026).