Conversation 042-068

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Yes, sir, Mr. President.

What's new over in your shop today?

Well, we're cooking up a little mischief.

We had quite a committee session up there this morning before Fulbright's committee.

Our young man, who was one of the Vietnam veterans, went up and testified and got into quite a debate with Fulbright.

I don't know how much... You mean he was one of the ones in town?

Well, he'd been with the Vietnam veterans last week down on the Mall.

Oh, I see.

But he testified that he thought that...

They'd gone off the track, and the president was ending the war correctly, and Fulbright tried to gavel him down.

The committee hearing began.

Some of our fellows finally got a little spunk.

Who?

Which one?

Well, Hugh Scott and George Aiken.

George Aiken said to a few fellows, if you kids don't like it in this country, why don't you go to another country?

And Scott accused them of taking direction from...

from madam ben who were these paris these were the the uh the organizers of the present group davis group the rennie davis group and uh but it our fellows got a little bit angry over it and i understand we've already found out abc is going to cover both scott and aiken and i suspect the other networks will so we might start to get a little bit even with them or try to rainwater

was in to see the Vice President this morning and told him the story of the difficulty he's been having getting coverage.

They, of course, wouldn't do a thing, did they?

No, they turned him down cold.

But he had a press conference this afternoon, and it's running on the A-wires of UP, in which he tells the whole story of how they wouldn't even guarantee him 30 seconds and how he met with the Vice President and how, once again, the kids that were here last week do not represent the veterans.

I think he'll get some coverage out of it.

I've just been reviewing for the past, the coverage over the past two and a half weeks and it, God, it is awful.

I want to talk to Hohleman and see whether maybe the time hasn't come for me to go to these fellows again and get real tough with them.

They've just given us a terrible break.

I've been through an extensive analysis of it.

No question, Mr. President, that they're just eroding the national

will to to be firm that's exactly what they're doing that's what they're trying to do yeah and even if they're doing it unconsciously i mean why don't you talk to skelly about it a little i think well i had a long talk with john about this really getting to understand it or not he's coming around he's taking time on it well he sees just show it to him show it to him he sees instances of it and the more he sees of it the more he begins to understand what we've been upset about he's going to have to be uh he's going to have to be very

uh active in this thing I mean he's going to have to be helpful either he can't take them on frontally right at the beginning but at the end he's got to find out well I'll tell you they uh they uh they have been that we all we all know that Chuck but uh we have to expect that that would happen that's what they're going to do well we just have now uh we uh uh they there there may be though there could be that uh

There does come points where they go beyond the pale some, you know what I mean?

We'll have to see.

Well, that's what I keep watching for.

And, of course, it's very difficult, Mr. President, for those of us inside to be objective.

Of course, I had a phone call program started around the country and talked to...

Well, I guess 20 people whom I really trust and who are damn good with political instincts in Texas and Nebraska.

And the reaction is, hell, the president's doing the right thing, and very few people were even aware of the demonstrations this weekend.

Of course, they don't get the play out of this town that they do here.

That's right.

The veterans thing made a little bit of an impact, but not as big as we know.

Of course, the thing is that it's just unconscionable.

These sons of bitches are playing a completely unpatriotic role in the whole deal.

Well, you just, I don't know what you can do with them when you go up to see them, but I'll tell you this.

Now, I want to be sure that Birch has got the word.

Not a thing for CBS on that spinoff, if you can stop it.

Did you get my memo on that?

No, I didn't.

Well, I sent you one after our conversations had tonight.

I went back to Dean and talked to him, and there have been some, we've discovered there are some more complications.

That's good.

Just complicate the hell out of it.

Oh, hell, I'd like to keep it there forever.

The problem is that

At a certain point, the law gives them a right to surface it.

Now, you can still keep sending it back for perfecting details.

I'm not so sure, though, that this antitrust thing maybe isn't...

Isn't ready.

Isn't more powerful as a thing I might be able to use for the night.

Well, we're going to do it, of course.

I'm going to go after them on the antitrust without any question.

I don't give a goddamn whether they shape up and run everything for us anyway because they're wrong on that one.

Well, I was thinking of it as a sort of Damocles kind of thing, whether maybe that's a possibility.

I don't know.

I wouldn't trust the bastards on that there, so.

They've been, well, as I say, it's very hard to be objective.

I know.

I'm studying now the last nine days with a fine-tooth comb.

It's really rough.

I don't want to jump into it.

I can tell from reading the news summaries how rough it is.

I don't want to jump into it impulsively.

On the other hand, and I'm spending a couple of days to think it through.

But also, let me say, just to keep your own balance, not only your calls around the country are interesting and important, but also I'd...

I'd give a call to, I'd get Scali in.

That's what we got him here for.

Let's use him and let's see whether he thinks you're being fair about it, you know?

He's a good balance wheel for us.

Good fellow, and we need to hear from him, you know, and he'll say, well, this is news and so forth.

He's been good.

He's going to find, for example, I think he's going to be disappointed we go out there for that Marine thing.

Of course, we're doing that on his recommendation, and I'm glad we're doing it in any event.

But he thinks they're going to get a big play.

Hell, they'll get that in about 30 seconds.

I know these bastards.

I'll tell you, if the theme is bringing the troops home, I think we'll get more than that.

And I think it's the kind of thing, even if you get 30 seconds, it's the right 30 seconds.

Oh, I know.

I think it's a good idea, but I think he's going to be disappointed in the fact that we're going to get damn less than he thinks.

He thinks we're going to get 10 minutes or 5, 10 minutes on the moves.

Hell, these people are never going to give it to us.

They'd...

They go the other way.

We're working on some other things in that respect to follow up things, Mr. President, that I think will get us subsequent television coverage.

I'm an ex-Marine, and I can tell you that that's a very good public relations operation over there.

I'm working with them on doing some specials on it later, and I think we can...

We'll get more out of that than just the one trip.

Well, we should.

We should.

They deserve it.

Another thing, too, is how about the Congress now?

How are they doing?

Are they... Well, they're scared to death.

Yeah.

Scared, what do you mean?

Of these demonstrators?

Sure.

That's nice.

Well, that certainly doesn't hurt our cause, does it?

It helps us.

I think they'd be turned off by it.

You should have heard the wailing that was going on Monday when these kids were running through the offices throwing paint and...

And they're running in and chasing the gals out of Tower's office.

Tower locked himself in his office.

And all of a sudden, he had been getting a little soft, you know.

God, he's tough again.

Tower?

Sure.

And even Aitken, I mean, he's...

They have turned off the Senators, and the Senators are scared.

Goldwater's closed his office, as you know.

That's a good thing.

Sure it is.

Some of our softies think you shouldn't have done that.

Boy, they're absolutely wrong.

Goldwater pointed up the problem that way.

Best thing in the world.

That's exactly how you point it.

We finally did something smart.

Exactly right.

That's right.

And what the hell, if they're going to go and rip his office up, close the damn thing.

Exactly.

But no, I think they'll overplay their hand.

I'm absolutely convinced of it.

mentioning Skelly, he got us a good commentary from Severide the other night.

He's not bashful.

He calls these fellows.

He called ABC today and said, you guys better run Scott tonight because he was damn good, and they said they were going to.

So he's helping us by getting in there.

Yeah, I think it's very important.

I'm thinking not of this, those things, but I'm thinking, no, that

We do tend, I mean, inside, we may be that we tend to overreact, but he thinks we do, you know, of course, as you know.

And I don't think we are.

I think these, I think the networks, hell, I think they're worse than you think.

But I refuse to, I'm not going to get emotionally involved myself because I think we're going to come out all right.

I mean, we take a crack at him, I'll hit him again tomorrow night, and then, you know, that keeps us going, that's all.

You understand that the power of when we hit him at the presidency, that'll wash it out for two or three weeks, and then you have to go on again.

That's right.

It's hard work.

And the trouble is we haven't got anybody except Connolly in the cabinet that's worth a tinker's damn to make any news.

He's good, though.

He's excellent.

He was great yesterday.

None of these other people are worth one goddamn.

They never say anything.

Richardson is good once he gets going.

Well, I know, but he never takes anybody on.

No, right.

He's positive.

You don't get any news being positive.

You know that.

Richardson's a great secretary, but I mean in terms of making news.

Conley is the one fellow who really knows how to do it.

He does it.

He's got the gift for it.

He's got the gift, and boy, does he sing them.

He loves it.

We don't want to overuse him, but I've got him on Face the Nation a week from Wednesday to Sunday because I think he can give a good upbeat on the economy and hit the economic critics.

They need to be hit.

I won't... Well, on the economic side, though, some way or other, that's beginning to seep through.

It's awfully hard for these people.

Sure, the news isn't always going to all be good, but there's so much of it that is positive that these bastards are having one hell of a time knocking it down.

the fifth month in a row today that the leading business indicators are up.

They can hardly defy the figures any longer.

I mean, they're coming through very strong.

And that's beginning to come out across the country.

The people we hear from here in this office

That's one of the things that... Beginning to feel better, huh?

They're beginning to say, gee, things are looking good again.

Sure.

You get that psychology going.

The reason, too, that a lot of the people you hear from think that all of them are in the market, and hell, the damn stock market, is these people are having a hell of a ball now again.

That's right.

Even the high flyers are beginning to go now.

See, and a lot of them are in high flyers in addition to blue chips.

Yeah, but the little traders are back in the market also.

You know what I meant, the high-flying stocks.

The high-flying stocks, right.

Yeah.

But the little traders are coming back in, which is a very good sign.

The odd lot sales and that kind of information indicates that little people as well as sophisticates are regaining.

Well, it's coming along, and on the war thing, we just hold the course.

I think as far as the senators up there are concerned, they've just got to understand I'm not going to change, not one damn bit.

They're not bothering me one bit.

I'm not going to be a phased a bit, that's all.

And so they want to...

They want to go running off to the hills, let them run.

That's right, exactly.

I've been rather pleased, at least with the two Ohio Senators, by golly.

They've been surprisingly good, haven't they?

Well, and Bob Taft is developing into a pretty good spokesman, Mr. President.

Maybe Bob is thinking about being leader one day.

You know, there is a leadership vacuum.

That's right.

It's very possible that Baker may not make it, you know.

I mean, he's tried twice.

Who knows?

Well, Taft, I've gotten him going on a couple of things, and he's just been...

completely responsive and smart and effective.

He's done it well.

You're getting ready for a press conference, so I won't talk to you about networks, but when it's over, I think maybe I'll talk to Bob first.

It may be time for another...

When I come back from California, we can, but in the meantime, just don't get in stew about it.

Just remember that the

They're against us, but we'll have to find ways to beat them.

I just want to outsmart them.

Yeah, I agree.

And there are ways that we can do it.

I guess I think I told you that Paley called me last week and wanted to come see me, and no particular reason.

Well, I know what it is.

He's worried about why that spinoff is still sitting there.

Just let it sit.

Exactly.

Let it sit, and also, God, I would say we're goddamn displeased.

I mean, I think their coverage has been lousy.

Well, that's exactly right.

Make him sit down and see it with you.

Well, of course, what they don't think about is the impact of it.

And this fellow, Kerry, that they had on last week, hell, he turns out to be really quite a phony.

Yeah, I know.

That story we're getting out, that true host is writing that for North American Newspaper Alliance.

Well, he is sort of a phony, isn't he?

Well, when he was here.

He stayed out in Georgetown.

one of the old-line Washington socialites, Oatsy Leiter, and was out at the best restaurants every night.

Sure.

You know, he's just a complete opportunist.

A racket, sure.

He was in Vietnam a total of four months.

He's politically ambitious and just looking for an issue.

He came back a hawk and became a dove when he saw the political opportunity.

Sure.

Well, anyway, keep the faith.

We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President.

Yes, sir.