{"conversationCode":"043-011","tapeNumber":43,"conversationNumber":11,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-043-011","startDateTime":"1973-01-31T21:52:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-01-31T23:13:00.000Z","startDate":"31-Jan-1973","startTime":"4:52 PM","endDate":"31-Jan-1973","endTime":"6:13 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Connally, John B.; White House operator; Keaton, Richard;","description":"On January 31, 1973, John B. Connally, White House operator, and Richard Keaton talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:52 pm and 6:13 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-011 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.3","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part III","chronReleaseDate":"23-Jun-2009","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 43-11\n\nDate: January 31, 1973\nTime: Unknown time between 4:52 pm and 6:13 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nJohn B. Connally talked with the White House operator.\n\n       Telephone call\n            -Richard Keaton\n            -Stephen B. Bull\n\nConnally talked with Keaton\n\n       Anti-trust case [Gulf and Western Industries v. Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Co.]\n             -Department of Justice\n                    -[first name unknown] Crawford\n                            -Keaton’s actions and efforts\n                            -Federal Trade Commission\n             -Charles Bluhdom [?]\n             -Connally’s view\n\n[There is no Conversation No. 43-12.]","filename":["043-011.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Connally, John B.","White House operator","Keaton, Richard","Connally, John B.","White House operator","Keaton, Richard"],"prevCode":"043-010","nextCode":"043-013","transcript":[{"start":2.98,"end":29.41,"text":"uh this john connolly you've got a call on mr bull's line for mr richard keaton can you give it to me um"},{"start":34.88,"end":37.28,"text":"Hello."},{"start":37.3,"end":37.82,"text":"Governor?"},{"start":37.84,"end":38.98,"text":"Yes, Richard."},{"start":39.66,"end":40.85,"text":"Corporal just called me."},{"start":41.01,"end":41.19,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":41.75,"end":45.57,"text":"And said that he cannot give any assurance at this point."},{"start":45.63,"end":52.04,"text":"There's just so much in the dark and this is just such a short range, short time to look at it."},{"start":52.36,"end":59.43,"text":"I asked him, are there any facts, any statistics, or any assurances, oral or written, that we could possibly make"},{"start":59.41,"end":60.94,"text":"that would change his mind."},{"start":60.98,"end":62.12,"text":"He said, no."},{"start":62.14,"end":65.95,"text":"I said, are you not satisfied about the ownerships or control?"},{"start":65.97,"end":67.25,"text":"He said, no."},{"start":67.31,"end":68.95,"text":"I take your word, I'm satisfied."},{"start":69.8,"end":74.75,"text":"It's just that we just cannot give any assurances and make any representations."},{"start":75.05,"end":76.21,"text":"I pushed him pretty hard."},{"start":76.33,"end":79.41,"text":"I pushed him as hard as I felt I could push him without..."},{"start":79.39,"end":80.96,"text":"He insulted the man."},{"start":81.86,"end":90.17,"text":"He also said that he meant so far as the second part of your request, there's just no way I can do anything about the FTC."},{"start":90.81,"end":97.39,"text":"I asked him, I said, well, did you talk to your people, whoever it is at the FTC, to try to work out liaison?"},{"start":97.37,"end":100.89,"text":"It was semi-vague, but he said, yes, kind of."},{"start":100.91,"end":105.23,"text":"He said, basically, their position's about like ours, but I just can't control them."},{"start":105.25,"end":108.48,"text":"I then went back and I said, well, look, let's leave out the FTC."},{"start":108.98,"end":110.92,"text":"What about the first part of the equation?"},{"start":111.06,"end":113.4,"text":"Again, is there anything we can do?"},{"start":113.42,"end":115.07,"text":"He said, no."},{"start":115.09,"end":121.35,"text":"And so, basically, he just doesn't want to say anything about a deal involving these companies."},{"start":121.39,"end":123.42,"text":"That's just all there is to it."},{"start":123.44,"end":124.98,"text":"I mean, they're just..."},{"start":125.53,"end":126.55,"text":"No way."},{"start":126.57,"end":136.17,"text":"You know, I mean, I ducked and dodged every way I knew, including a pretty tough approach at one point when I felt there wasn't anything else."},{"start":136.19,"end":137.53,"text":"Well, you stay there."},{"start":138.15,"end":138.91,"text":"Just stay there."},{"start":138.95,"end":141.4,"text":"Don't plan to go home, and I'll get out of here as soon as I can."},{"start":141.82,"end":143.74,"text":"The question is, should I call Charlie and tell him?"},{"start":143.78,"end":147.73,"text":"Yes, call and tell him, and tell him I'm coming over there, and we'll call him from there."},{"start":148.89,"end":149.55,"text":"All right."},{"start":150.75,"end":151.51,"text":"I'll call him."},{"start":151.55,"end":155.58,"text":"I've got a little information, but it doesn't change what they've just said to you."},{"start":155.64,"end":157.2,"text":"I think they're spooky about it."},{"start":157.22,"end":157.9,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":157.92,"end":159.5,"text":"And they don't have enough information."},{"start":160.63,"end":167.6,"text":"When asked what would it take, you know, I got a little hot then because he said, you know, I'll work all night."},{"start":167.62,"end":168.74,"text":"What do you need to know?"},{"start":169.42,"end":172.77,"text":"He finds that, well, it's not just that, just we don't have enough time."},{"start":172.79,"end":174.85,"text":"I mean, I think they'd be spooky whatever we do."},{"start":174.87,"end":175.53,"text":"I think that's right."},{"start":176.45,"end":178.17,"text":"And I don't think they want to make an agreement."},{"start":178.53,"end":180.24,"text":"I think it's very clear they don't."},{"start":180.3,"end":181.36,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":181.38,"end":184.04,"text":"So we've got to make up our minds whether or not we want to go with that."},{"start":184.16,"end":186.9,"text":"I'll tell Charlie you'll be back around 6 o'clock."},{"start":186.94,"end":187.93,"text":"Yep, yep, yep."},{"start":187.97,"end":188.15,"text":"Okay."},{"start":188.17,"end":188.87,"text":"All right."},{"start":188.89,"end":188.97,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"John B. Connally and Richard Keaton discuss the failure of their efforts to obtain assurances from the Department of Justice regarding the Gulf and Western Industries antitrust case. Keaton reports that a DOJ official, identified as Crawford, refused to offer any legal representations or influence the Federal Trade Commission's position, citing a lack of information and time. Connally concludes that the government is unwilling to reach an agreement and instructs Keaton to brief Charles Bluhdorn before he meets with him personally to determine their next steps.","topics":["Antitrust litigation","Department of Justice","Federal Trade Commission","Corporate legal strategy","Gulf and Western Industries"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T06:25:02.215Z"},"topicSlugs":["antitrust-litigation","department-of-justice","federal-trade-commission","corporate-legal-strategy","gulf-and-western-industries"],"audioDurationSec":195,"audioFiles":[{"file":"043-011.mp3","bytes":4686034,"durationSec":195.12,"bitrate":192129,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:30.085Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/043-011.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/043-011","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/43/conversation-043-011","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}