Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 43 › Conversation 043-020

Nixon phone call with Mansfield on Henry Kissinger and Vietnam War

Saturday, February 3, 1973 · 1:21 PM–1:23 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Mansfield, Michael J. ("Mike")Conversation043-020 on Tape 43StartSaturday, February 3, 1973 at 1:21 PMEndSaturday, February 3, 1973 at 1:23 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 043-020 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield discussed upcoming foreign policy developments, including Henry Kissinger’s diplomatic missions to Hanoi and Peking and the potential for a future trip to China for Mansfield. They also coordinated on appointing members to the Committee for the Study of Foreign Policy, with Nixon expressing a desire to select high-profile individuals like Nelson Rockefeller. Finally, the two reviewed the status of ceasefires in Southeast Asia, with Nixon justifying continued U.S. bombing in Laos as an incentive to finalize peace agreements.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello?
Hi, Mike, how are you?
Fine.
Sorry to bother you.
No, that's all right.
I was just sitting here.
As a matter of fact, I was just working with Henry on preparing for his trip to Hanoi.
He just announced, we just announced today, maybe you didn't catch it, that he's going to go from Hanoi to Peking for another dialogue.
So I just thought that was what...
Anything to add to that?
What's that?
No, no, no, no.
No, he'll be back on the 19th.
No, he'll be back on the 19th or 20th, definitely.
It depends whether P. King adds a day or not, but that's it.
The P. King one, I should tell you, is not...
is not it's coincidental with the other for the vietnam it's basically part of the continuing dialogue but uh naturally each side will have a chance to bring any subject up they want so in other words it's a we are playing a naturally
very much that way because we don't want to give an impression that the purpose of going to Peking is to twist Hanoi's arm, you see.
But on the other hand, the coincidence, let me say, it isn't unplanned as far as we're concerned.
That's good.
Good.
Well, now, Mr. President, that was one thing I was going to tell you about.
About, you know, my request to you that I wait until this war is over.
Right, right.
I'll tell, as a matter of fact, I've already, I'm way ahead of you.
I told him to talk about it when he's over there, and he will.
Good.
Now, when would you, what, April?
April or thereabouts.
That would be the time.
Why don't you give another option?
April or May.
April or May, and either of those times.
All right.
I'll do it.
I'll see that he hesitates.
I've already talked to him about it because of the request.
Let me ask you one other thing.
You mentioned to me a committee that I...
Didn't get the and I asked somebody I think I asked a lot about it and he said he didn't to check with you if you've given us the dirt on that because I don't know anything I haven't made appointments to yet, but it's a committee for the For the study of foreign policy.
Yes, there's four house members.
When was it set up?
Is it something?
in September I believe I say by the Congress by the Congress and I
four from the Senate, or two from the Senate, two from the House, with the leaders to appoint the two members in each place, two to appoint four.
And I have not appointed any yet.
I have not appointed any, you say?
No.
And there's been about a, there's been a sum allocated, I forget how much, around a million, I believe.
And it's supposed to report back, I think, by June the 30th, 1974.
And you're ahead of me on that.
That was the other thing I was going to talk about.
Well,
The reason I asked you about it, when I got your, you know, you mentioned it to me, and I tried to check it out, and they didn't have their, I mean, it's one of those things where we didn't have it, apparently.
Oh, I don't want to give the bill.
No, you don't.
I've got it now, and I'll tell them to give me some names.
Now, these are civilians, are they?
I mean, mine are not supposed to be congressional.
No.
No, no, no.
But can they be, say, for example, if I wanted, could I appoint a governor on it, or would that not be proper?
Oh, sure, if he could spend the time, you betcha.
A governor would be all right.
Sure.
I was thinking of somebody...
The choice is entirely yours, Mr. President.
I was thinking of somebody like, well, like a Rockefeller, I mean, who has...
That's right.
Experience.
Experience and could, frankly, spend the money to make a real contribution.
I don't know that we could get him, but I'm thinking of people like that and the foreign policy field.
You know, Jim Pearson and I are the Senate ones.
You and Pearson, fine.
All right.
And I'll have at it, Mike, to see if we can get our appointments over.
We've been so busy with some others.
I know, but now that you're inaugurated and have gone through that travail.
Right.
That finished the war.
Incidentally, I think you'll be pleased if you, I know you follow the papers, but I, of course, have been spending all the morning here going over it.
The reports on the ceasefire actually are very good at the moment.
There are six actions only in South Vietnam yesterday.
That's great.
Four initiated by the North Vietnamese and the VC, two by the South Vietnamese, both of which grew out of...
but it happened the days before, but they think they're getting into place.
The Cambodian ceasefire is working extremely well with Shea and Oak.
Shea and Oak, as you may have noted, has come along now.
And there's no action in Cambodia.
The Laotian one is still on track, and we expect...
This is something that we don't want to be hung on a deadline.
We have no problem, but we don't want to put them on either side of the position.
But we still think that our projection of 15 days after the 27th
is in the ballpark now.
That's great.
The path that low and the others are meeting and if anything, and as soon as that happens, of course, then our air activities will stop.
I know you expressed concern about that, but we have to continue the air activities or
And frankly, in order to keep the pressure so that they'll make the ceasefire, that's what it is.
But they will, but the air activities, they have been told that the air activities will be stopped the moment the ceasefire is agreed to.
So they've got an incentive now to stop it.
Well, that's great.
Well, that's great, Mr. President.
I think you must have ESP, but the two things I want to talk about you've anticipated me.
So Henry will see what he can do, and you'll see what you can do about the committee.
The committee, yeah.
And I'll get some good names, and we'll send them down to you.
Okay.
You don't have any women on it, do you?
On yours?
Yes.
Who?
Mrs. Englehart from New Jersey.
Oh, you appointed her?
Yeah, I appointed her.
Oh, yeah, fine.
I just wanted to be sure there was one woman.
Let me ask you, is there any black on, for example?
Have you appointed any blacks?
No, no.
The other one that you appointed was his Republican fundraiser in Philadelphia.
I forget his name, some Irish name.
I've already appointed him, you see?
No.
Hugh.
Oh, Scott, yeah.
You and you.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, now, let me see.
No, I'm just thinking of, you know, all the sensitivities here.
If it's foreign policy, there may somebody be.
You see, with Africa, they're going to think some black ought to be on it, I think.
But I just don't know whether anybody's qualified, frankly.
That's not the most important part.
I know.
I'm going to point good people.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Bye.
Thank you very much.
Bye.
Bye, sir.

NARA Description

On February 3, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield talked on the telephone from 1:21 pm to 1:23 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-020 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 43-20

Date: February 3, 1973
Time: 1:21 pm - 1:23 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Michael J. Mansfield talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 840-16]

       Henry A. Kissinger’s schedule
            -Trip to Hanoi and Peking

       Mansfield’s schedule
            -Possible trip to Peking
                  -Kissinger
                  -Timing

       Committee for the Study of Foreign Policy
           -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
           -Appointments
                 -House and Senate members
                 -The President’s appointees
                 -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                 -James B. Pearson
                                             -12-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                                Conversation No. 43-20 (cont’d)

                  -Mansfield

       Southeast Asia ceasefires
            -Reports
            -Vietnam
            -Cambodia
                  -Norodom Sihanouk
            -Laos
                  -Pathet Lao
                        -US bombing
                               -Rationale

       Mansfield’s trip
            -Kissinger

       Committee for the Study of Foreign Policy
           -Appointments
                 -Jane Engelhard [?]
                        -New Jersey
                 -Blacks
                        -Hugh Scott
                             -Republican fundraiser
                                   -Philadelphia
                                   -Irish American
                             -Africa
                             -Qualifications

Also recorded on February 3, 1973

  • 840-013 1:20 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 1:20 pm.
  • 840-014 1:20 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:20 pm to 1:21 pm.
  • 840-015 1:20 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:20 pm to 1:21 pm.
  • 840-016 1:21 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:21 pm to 1:23 pm.
  • 043-021 1:23 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:23 pm and 1:33 pm.
  • 840-017 1:23 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:23 pm and 1:32 pm.
  • 840-018 1:23 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:23 pm and 1:32 pm.
  • 840-019 1:32 PM · 24 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Claudia A. Johnson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:32 pm to 1:57 pm.

All 41 conversations from February 3, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 043-020, February 3, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/043-020 (accessed October 1, 2026).