Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 43 › Conversation 043-060

Nixon phone call with Johnson on POWs and Flag protocol

Tuesday, February 13, 1973 · 8:47 AM–8:54 AM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Johnson, Claudia A.Conversation043-060 on Tape 43StartTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 8:47 AMEndTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 8:54 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 043-060 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon called Lady Bird Johnson to propose raising the American flag, which was currently at half-mast following Lyndon B. Johnson's death, to commemorate the return of American POWs from North Vietnam. Nixon sought Mrs. Johnson's approval to frame the announcement as a gesture that her late husband would have supported, viewing it as a morale boost and a symbolic rebuttal to anti-war critics. Mrs. Johnson expressed her support for the idea, and the President agreed to verify the legal feasibility of ending the mourning proclamation early before making a final public decision.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mrs. Johnson, sir.
Hello.
Good morning.
Hope I didn't get you up too early.
Oh, no.
I'm finding so many things I have to do now that I'm up very early.
Oh, that's right.
It's only an hour different anyway there.
Yes.
I was just watching the television on the POW return.
Did you get to see it?
No, sir, I didn't.
I watched about 15 minutes ago, but I've been gone for about 15 minutes.
No, no, I meant last, when they came in last night, I mean the night before last, you know, and so forth.
Well, that's really one of the most moving things you could possibly imagine.
And I think we can all be...
be very uh very thankful and i know lyndon would just think this would be a great day i talked to two of the wives captain denton and uh wife and uh also commander no uh colonel cypher i mean the great ace who each has been away seven and a half years and uh to hear them talk is really something to hear it's really something
Well, how good of you to call.
And I was going to...
It just must be... Yeah.
Well, I know it would have been a relief to him, and I was going to ask you one thing.
What do you think about it?
I don't know whether it's legal, and I don't want to check it unless you think.
I noticed somebody said that as they returned that this is really a day that a great load is lift off everybody, and we ought to fly the flag.
I was thinking that we might...
just uh just suggest that the flag could go up you see we have only we have about a week uh two weeks left of the of the morning period uh yes sir let's see that would be to the 22nd and today is the 13th that's just nine days there that's right no i don't want to do it unless you think it's a good idea i would only do it if you if you thought that uh the uh it just just occurred to me i just saw that saw the idea and uh and of course it would be accompanied with the story of why wouldn't it
Well, the way I would say it was that I had talked to you, and that you felt that in view of this great day, that you knew that your President Johnson would have wanted the flag flown.
Everybody's heart was lifted by that return, and in the spirit of what his minister said, the era that arrived is the...
Yes, that's right.
And I was thinking that it would tend, frankly, I'm putting it quite candidly, that I think it would tend to remind people that that's what he would have wanted, too.
You see what I mean?
Yes, sir.
The flag being at half-mast, and they see it go up, and then it reminds them again that we're all working for the same thing.
But if you have any question on it at all, we wouldn't do it.
It's just a thought that the flag is at half-mast.
Well, it's a brand new concept for me.
I believe that I like the idea because to see the flag at hand-masked always, no matter who or whom, just lowers my spirits.
And then when it goes back up, my spirits rise.
And this is a great time for everyone in the country who's been waiting for those people.
Well, the way we would put it is that I would just say it here that
I talked to Mrs. Johnson this morning, and she feels that the flag should, that her, President Johnson would have wanted the flag flown on this great day as they return.
And so we're putting the flag up.
I think it would have a good emotional bang, you know, that's what I think.
And also it's these people, you know, that want to continue to hit him and, of course, me on...
You know, being the war makers and the rest, it just tended to put it to them a little bit.
You know, after all, that's how we got them back.
So it would just go up as of today with that sort of a statement and stay up, right?
Yes, and I understand.
I've got to check.
I haven't even looked at the ideas that occurred to me as I read in the news summary.
I've got to check whether the law will allow that.
See, the flag is down 30 days by proclamation, and then I would have it come up and then stay up for the balance of the period, you know, as these people come down.
But that was the way it would be.
And I'm just thinking that it might have quite an impact on the country to see the flag flown as these men come home.
You see, they'll all be coming home and so forth, and naturally people will be having flags.
And it just occurred to me it might be good.
This is my idea.
I just said somebody, I noticed the news summary suggested it, somebody from one of the
veterans organizations, but he didn't say this.
He didn't.
He was just saying the flag should be flown or something like that.
This is the time to fly the flag.
So that was what it is.
But if you don't think, if you think, well, I'll have it quietly checked, and if it is...
Yes, sir, I do.
I think it would have been thoroughly in keeping with Lyndon's... His own view.
Well, he was an outgoing, you know, he was an emotional man, and I think he'd sort of say, well, why not, you know?
He's feeling for the flag.
Right, right.
And for these men.
These men who were so... Who were the real, they're really heroes, you know.
They're...
These are the heroes, not the people that went off to Canada.
I couldn't agree more.
Right, right.
Well, if you think, well, let me just check it off, and if I find it's possible, I'll let you know, and we'll have the announcement read so that you'll know about it, okay?
All right.
We'll call you back, and if you think...
Thank you, sir.
All right, thanks.
Bye.

NARA Description

On February 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Claudia A. Johnson talked on the telephone from 8:47 am to 8:54 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-060 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 43-60

Date: February 13, 1973
Time: 8:47 am - 8:54 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Claudia A. (“Lady Bird”) Johnson.

[See Conversation No. 854-6]

       Prisoners of War [POWs]
             -Return from captivity in North Vietnam
                   -Television [TV] coverage
                   -The President’s view
             -The President’s conversations with Mrs. Robinson Risner and Mrs. Jeremiah A.
              Denton, Jr.
             -End of mourning period for Lyndon B. Johnson’s death
                   -Flying the US flag
                          -Legal considerations
                          -The President’s announcement
                                -Return of POWs
                                -Lyndon B. Johnson
                          -Mrs. Johnson’s view
                   -Opponents of the war
                   -Proclamation
                          -Legal considerations
                                             -32-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                   -Suggestions
                         -News summary
                         -Veterans organization
             -Draft evaders
                   -Canada

Also recorded on February 13, 1973

  • 043-058 8:35 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr. talked on the telephone from 8:35 am to 8:37 am.
  • 854-004 8:35 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mrs. Jeremiah P. Denton met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:35 am to 8:37 am.
  • 043-059 8:37 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:47 am.
  • 854-005 8:37 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:47 am.
  • 854-006 8:47 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Claudia A. Johnson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:47 am to 8:54 am.
  • 043-061 8:54 AM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:54 am and 9:34 am.
  • 854-007 8:54 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:54 am and 9:00 am.
  • 854-008 9:00 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:00 am to 9:15 am.

All 55 conversations from February 13, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 043-060, February 13, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/043-060 (accessed October 1, 2026).