Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 43 › Conversation 043-086
Nixon phone call with Lewis on Vietnam War and Prisoners of War
Wednesday, February 14, 1973 · 8:04 PM–8:11 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Hobart D. Lewis discussed the positive public impact of returning American POWs from Vietnam and the strategic success of the December 1972 bombing campaign. They explored the potential for a high-profile media narrative to document these events and emphasize the administration's resolve in achieving the cease-fire terms. The conversation concluded with a plan for Lewis to facilitate a meeting between Admiral Thomas H. Moorer and journalist Hanson Baldwin to begin coordinating this coverage.
- Vietnam War
- Prisoners of War
- December 1972 Bombing
- Cease-fire
- Media Relations
- Public Opinion
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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Hello?
Hey, Mr. President.
Well, I'm at home, and I've been thinking about you the last two weeks.
I want to tell you... How do you think of those POWs?
Well, I think it's perfectly wonderful.
Every one of them.
Aren't they great?
They're saying just exactly what I hoped they'd say and I knew they'd say.
As a matter of fact, they're actually...
privately, of course, saying a great deal more, but they can't say it until after all of our back.
When I say, you know, God bless the commander-in-chief, and thank you, Mr. President, and all that stuff, that's just exactly right.
Well, I think it's good for the country.
We finally have some heroes out of the war.
It's just absolutely tremendous.
Well, sir, you're the hero out of this war.
Just absolutely, you know?
I was, I'll tell you now, I was very worried during that Christmas bombing.
Oh, everybody was.
You know, I was really worried, and I didn't want to say anything to you, but thank God I didn't, and not that it would do anything, but I can't admire you enough for what you did during that Christmas bombing.
It's what did it, you know.
I know it's what did it, and you did it all by yourself, and nobody else.
Just fantastic.
And I was talking to Joe Alf up the other day, and apparently...
He understands.
Well, apparently he has the...
permission to do the story.
And he talked to me about it.
We'll do it with him, you know.
Great.
Which is just great.
It's a tremendous story.
But anyway, it's absolutely thrilling.
One thing, of course, that you should be thinking of, I know you already are, that at the, and you can't do it until, see, they all get back by the 28th of March.
Yeah.
The 60 days, yeah, the 28th.
And then, of course, there's a fantastic story which would really reach people with regard to their heroism and the rest.
Of course.
You could take people like Mulligan and, of course, the great worries.
Right.
Reasoner and the rest.
Any one of them.
It's just a terrific story.
Anyway, it is really a great, great time for the United States and an even greater time for you.
People up there are beginning to recognize you now, aren't they?
Everybody, you know, the whole country.
It's really marvelous, you know.
It's so crystal clear that what you did at Christmastime has brought this whole thing off.
I was worried, and I felt for you, and I knew you had it right, but I was concerned.
Well, it's a risk, but it worked.
No, it just took it off all the guts in the world.
It's the greatest thing you've done, and you've done an awful lot.
Otherwise, you see, if we hadn't done it, we'd still be in there haggling around.
Absolutely.
Three or four more months.
Sure.
No, I think it's just tremendous.
And I'm so glad that these prisoners are all reacting the way they are.
They understand.
We may get a few bad apples before it's over, but that's all right.
The first ones were the important ones.
Yes, and I don't think the others, you know, having had this example of real heroes, I think it's just great.
Well, we certainly want to talk to them when the right time comes.
Right.
We want to do this story with Joe.
But I think if he can get the true story of what happened...
tell you a lot about it at the right uh even even beginning now not for printing now would be uh admiral moore you see really oh yes he was over to see me today and i'm going to the pentagon tomorrow but uh the the inside story is really quite exciting well does he know that this is the story of the bombing oh yes and the effect on them yeah and he knows that right well of course
He knows what they're saying in their briefings, which will not come out until it's all over.
Until they're all back, you can't say anything.
How could I get to... Could you...
Could somebody give him a signal to talk to me?
Sure, I'll tell him.
Or talk to us?
I'll tell him.
We'd love to get that.
I'll just tell him that it would be a good idea if you talked to him.
All right, I'll just send him in on a few days.
I'll see him tomorrow, and I'll tell him that you're interested in doing some things.
You sure are.
It would be helpful, and he'll...
He could even talk to somebody, you know, starting to build a story.
Yeah, we'll get Hanson Baldwin on it, I think.
Baldwin, oh yes, and he trusts him.
Sure.
Yeah, Baldwin would be a great one to write it.
Yeah.
Where are you, Mr. President?
Are you in Washington?
Oh, yes, yeah.
Right.
I'm back in Washington for a few days.
Gee, well, it's very exciting and so gratifying.
Just as thrilling as it could be.
Right.
Well, that makes people forget the international monetary situation, the budget crunch and all the rest.
Well, they should forget it, too, you know.
Gosh.
This is the important thing.
This will pull the country together, I think, just without question.
Well, it'll help.
It'll help.
Some of the—there are those, you know, who just are never going to give up.
Never.
Well, the hell with it.
They'll get off to something else.
But the great majority of the country, I think, is—
Great.
And, you know, the prisoners are a great indication that it is all over.
I hope it's over.
You can't tell.
Well, it is as far as we're concerned.
As far as we're concerned.
I thought it was really marvelous that you didn't have to give away any more than you did.
You know, we thought you'd have to give away a lot more than you did.
Actually, I mean, after all, they have the South Vietnam retains its government.
They choose their future.
That's what so surprised me.
I wasn't prepared to see that go, you know.
And that's the key thing.
That's what it was all about.
That's what it was all about.
And we refused to impose a coalition government.
Right.
They gave in on it, you see.
I just didn't think you could stand up against that.
Of course, Joe would write all that.
Well, he'd get all that, of course.
But the prisoner story in itself is a kind of a story that should really relate to their bravery and what they went through.
It's just a question of how to get the right fellow to tell it the right way.
And we'll talk to your people on that one, if we may.
Right.
I do salute you.
You would say that the man that you would want to talk to more would be Baldwin, right?
I think, yes.
He knows him very well, Mr. President.
All right.
I'll tell Maura tomorrow that the man that we'll be getting in touch with him will be Baldwin.
Splendid.
Good.
We'll do that.
Congratulations a thousand times.
Well, we just keep working on it.
Well, it shows what happens when you've got real guts and you've really had it.
Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
This time it did.
Well, I know, but this time was so important.
I can't think of another person in the world who would have hung as tough as you did through that Christmas time.
It wasn't easy.
No, it wasn't.
I know now what you were going through.
It sure paid off.
Well, good to talk to you, and I'll speak to him about it.
God bless you.
NARA Description
On February 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Hobart D. Lewis talked on the telephone from 8:04 pm to 8:11 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-086 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 43-86
Date: February 14, 1973
Time: 8:04 pm - 8:11 pm
Location: White House Telephone
-47-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 43-86 (cont’d)
The President talked with Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis.
Vietnam War
-Prisoners of War [POWs]
-Statements
-December 1972 bombing
-Lewis’s conversation with Joseph W. Alsop
-Suggestions for stories
-The President’s role in the cease-fire
-POWs
-James Mulligan, Robinson Risner
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Possible meeting with Lewis
-The President’s schedule
-Hanson Baldwin
-Mood of the nation
-Effect of return of POWs
-International monetary situation
-Budget difficulties
-Terms of Vietnam cease-fire
-Negotiations
-Alsop
-POW story
-Moorer
-Baldwin
-The President’s resolveAlso recorded on February 15, 1973
- 043-134 8:27 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:27 am and 9:06 am.
- 857-001 9:02 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:02 am to 9:12 am.
- 857-002 9:12 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:12 am and 9:20 am.
- 857-003 9:20 AM · 1 hr 19 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Stephen B. Bull, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, William E. Timmons, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:20 am to 10:40 am.
- 857-004 10:40 AM · 30 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Rogers C. B. Morton, J. Philip Campbell, Russell E. Train, William D. Ruckelhaus, John D. Ehrlichman, Richard M. Fairbanks, III, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:40 am to 11:10 am.
- 043-087 11:12 AM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:12 am and 11:14 am.
- 043-088 11:12 AM · 43 sec — Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft and Adm. Thomas H. Moorer talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:12 am and 12:02 pm.
- 857-005 11:12 AM · 50 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, Gen. Andrew J. Goodpaster, White House operator, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:12 am to 12:02 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 043-086, February 15, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/043-086 (accessed October 1, 2026).