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Conversation 043-150

TapeTape 43StartWednesday, February 21, 1973 at 11:52 AMEndWednesday, February 21, 1973 at 11:57 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Downey, William;  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On February 21, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, William Downey, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 11:52 am to 11:57 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-150 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 43-150

Date: February 21, 1973
Time: 11:52 am - 11:57 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with William Downey.
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                                  Conversation No. 43-150 (cont’d)

[See Conversation No. 859-32B]

       John Downey
            -The President’s conversation with Henry A. Kissinger
                  -Chou En-lai
            -Release of Downy by the People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                  -Circumstances
                         -Kissinger’s negotiations
                  -Kissinger’s announcement
                  -Timing of release
            -Mother of John Downey
                  -Illness

Kissinger talked with William Downey.

       John Downey
            -PRC review of sentence
                  -Timing of release
                  -Kissinger’s statement
                  -Kissinger’s negotiations
            -The President’s role in the release from captivity
                  -Mother of John Downey
                        -Illness
                  -Letter to Chou
            -Kissinger’s announcement
            -PRC reliability
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. William Downey on the line.
Yes.
Hello, Mr. President.
Mr. Downey?
Yes, sir.
I just had a conversation with Dr. Kissinger, and we have some good news for you.
Dr. Kissinger will be briefing the press tomorrow, so this news must be held until then.
But I thought you would like to know that in his talk with the Chinese officials, Mr. Zhou Enlai, of course, as you know, I have...
On my visit in February, I raised this issue very strongly.
And they have said that not immediately, but at the end of this year, that they have a procedure whereby they can review a sentence of an individual and by good behavior take action.
And they've indicated, Dr. Kissinger, that positive action will be taken and that your brother will be released.
That would be about the end of 73, sir?
I don't know as to the exact date, but toward the end of this year.
I mean, they may come a little sooner than that.
My guess is that, I mean, we don't, but the main point is not to press it because we have it all on the track.
And so that's...
But they were definite enough to... Yeah, I'm going to have Dr. Kutcher...
Well, that's the whole point, you see.
He's going to make a public announcement, which I think should, that should be, that's the reassuring thing.
They would never allow a public announcement unless they were going to go.
So we feel very good about it.
And we want to do, I wanted you to tell your mother, I understand she's not well, that I would have called her, but I knew she wasn't well, but I wanted her to get the news before she heard it on the television.
Thank you very much, sir, for everything.
Well, we wish we could have done it sooner, but as you know, we worked hard on it, but we pressed it, and in this case, the diplomacy finally paid off.
Here's Dr. Kissinger.
He may give you Lamar.
Thank you.
And good luck to you.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Downey?
Yes, hi, Dr. Kissinger.
How are you?
Thank you, too, for all your efforts.
Well, not at all.
It's been a privilege.
What they said is that they'd review the sentence in the second half of this year,
and they have a provision for time off or good behavior, and that your brother's behavior has been exemplary, that he's in excellent health and excellent spirit.
Secondly, I pointed out that your mother is ill, and they said that if the president pointed out to them that the mother was ill in the second half of this year, they would move it to an earlier period in the second half of the year.
And I'm certain that the president will do that.
So I would think that by early fall, at the latest, he should be out.
So it's the end of the year or a little earlier?
Well, our intention, frankly, is that the president would write a letter to Joe in July, which would make it the second half of the year.
And that in some reasonable time afterwards, we're sure that they'll do it.
Now, what they will permit us to say tomorrow, but they don't want anything said until then, and you know how meticulous they are, is that they have assured us that they have provisions in their legal code for review of sentences in case of good behavior, that your brother's behavior has been good, and that his sentence will be reviewed in the second half of this year.
I see.
They won't tell us.
They will not let us say more than that.
But that in itself is a practical guarantee.
I guess if they're letting you say something publicly about it, yeah.
But Zhou Enlai has told me when I said that we have this interest because of your mother's illness, they said that if the president pointed that out to him in the second half of this year, which we will interpret as shortly after July 1st,
That would weigh very heavily with them.
And I can assure you our experience with the Chinese has been that when they say something like that and get the president's name personally involved, that there's no chance of it going wrong.
Well, yes, I imagine that's correct.
Well, I'm terribly grateful and I want to thank you and the president for letting me know right away.
Right, and you'll keep that as you have kept everything else secret?
Right, I...
I mean, of course you'll tell your mother.
Yeah, but I wouldn't...
I wouldn't mention that I've talked to you or the President.
Well, you can mention it tomorrow after...
Afterwards.
Afterwards, you can mention that the President called you.
Okay, well, again, thank you so much...
Right, Mr. Downey.
Well, you've been, I want you to know that in very difficult circumstances, the president appreciates that you've behaved like a gentleman.
Well, he deserves at least that from me.
Right.
Thank you very much.
Bye.
Bye now.
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