{"conversationCode":"043-165","tapeNumber":43,"conversationNumber":165,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-043-165","startDateTime":"1973-02-22T14:55:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-02-22T15:06:00.000Z","startDate":"22-Feb-1973","startTime":"9:55 AM","endDate":"22-Feb-1973","endTime":"10:06 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Kissinger, Henry A.; Rogers, William P.;","description":"On February 22, 1973, Henry A. Kissinger and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:55 am and 10:06 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 043-165 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.3","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part III","chronReleaseDate":"23-Jun-2009","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 43-165\n\nDate: February 22, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 9:55 am and 10:06 am\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nHenry A. Kissinger talked with William P. Rogers.\n\n[See Conversation No. 861-19B]\n\n       The President’s schedule\n            -Rogers\n            -William J. Porter\n            -William H. Sullivan\n            -Kissinger\n            -Photograph\n\n       Kissinger’s press conference\n             -Kissinger’s view\n             -US-People’s Republic of China [PRC] relations\n             -Foreign aid\n\f                                             -97-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                  -Rogers view\n                  -Liberal opposition\n                  -George S. McGovern","filename":["043-165.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Kissinger, Henry A.","Rogers, William P."],"prevCode":"043-164","nextCode":"043-166","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":0.91,"text":"Hi, Henry."},{"start":1.33,"end":14.71,"text":"Bill, the President was wondering whether you, Bill, and Bill Porter, and Sullivan, and I mightn't have breakfast with him tomorrow morning to discuss the international conference."},{"start":14.73,"end":15.51,"text":"Yeah, good idea."},{"start":15.94,"end":20.37,"text":"And then we have a picture taken, and it puts it in its right perspective."},{"start":20.43,"end":21.15,"text":"That's fine."},{"start":21.43,"end":21.88,"text":"What time?"},{"start":21.9,"end":22.92,"text":"8.30."},{"start":23.4,"end":23.74,"text":"Okay."},{"start":24.48,"end":26.12,"text":"I was afraid you might get enthusiastic."},{"start":26.14,"end":26.69,"text":"It was 7.30."},{"start":26.71,"end":28.53,"text":"8.30 in the morning?"},{"start":28.89,"end":29.47,"text":"8.30."},{"start":29.65,"end":32.5,"text":"Bill Porter and Bill Sullivan and you and I."},{"start":32.98,"end":33.38,"text":"Fine."},{"start":33.97,"end":36.95,"text":"And we swore, and that gave us about 45 minutes."},{"start":37.13,"end":38.57,"text":"How did your briefing go?"},{"start":38.61,"end":40.12,"text":"I was tied up, so I didn't hear it."},{"start":40.14,"end":41.32,"text":"I think it went pretty well."},{"start":41.34,"end":42.68,"text":"You know, it was easy."},{"start":42.84,"end":50.43,"text":"I made many of the same points I had made at the briefing with a little less of the, you know, I didn't give too much of the color."},{"start":50.97,"end":56.36,"text":"I didn't give much of the color, and I didn't make any speculation about their motives."},{"start":57.58,"end":58.32,"text":"That sounds good."},{"start":58.34,"end":63.15,"text":"And on aid, they hit me, and I gave about the same answer."},{"start":63.53,"end":63.67,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":64.7,"end":68.14,"text":"I really think we're going to have less trouble with aid than people think."},{"start":68.3,"end":69.06,"text":"That's what I think."},{"start":69.12,"end":72.61,"text":"Because the liberals, when they're put to the torch, can't really do anything."},{"start":72.77,"end":75.95,"text":"All they're doing now is heckling the president, trying to take some political cheap shots."},{"start":76.01,"end":78.94,"text":"But once that phase is behind them, I think they have no place to go."},{"start":79.02,"end":80.24,"text":"That's what I think."},{"start":80.58,"end":81.2,"text":"I didn't."},{"start":81.58,"end":90.08,"text":"McGovern raised it with me, and I thought that rather than challenge him, he's so goddamn low now, so much at the bottom of the heap, there's no point in building him up."},{"start":90.1,"end":92.93,"text":"But I think when the chips are down, we can really take him on."},{"start":93.27,"end":93.95,"text":"I think so."},{"start":93.97,"end":98.33,"text":"Well, he's really a tawdry guy when you think of all his bleeding about the poor people there."},{"start":98.35,"end":98.99,"text":"I know."},{"start":99.01,"end":102.21,"text":"And all the things he was going to do to help them when the war was over."},{"start":102.72,"end":103.25,"text":"That's right."},{"start":103.31,"end":107.4,"text":"And that we should be known as the people to reconstruct rather than as the bombers."},{"start":107.42,"end":108.06,"text":"That's right."},{"start":108.08,"end":110,"text":"Now he has his chance, and he does nothing."},{"start":110.32,"end":110.58,"text":"That's right."},{"start":110.56,"end":114.91,"text":"But as I say, he really is awfully, he's at the bottom of the barrel."},{"start":115.66,"end":120.25,"text":"Interestingly, the other senators were all sort of disgusted when they left."},{"start":120.93,"end":121.29,"text":"Really?"},{"start":121.47,"end":121.67,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":122.25,"end":122.59,"text":"Okay."},{"start":122.65,"end":126.02,"text":"Okay, Bill, see you at breakfast."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"Henry Kissinger and Secretary of State William Rogers coordinate a breakfast meeting with President Nixon to discuss the upcoming international conference, involving key diplomats William J. Porter and William H. Sullivan. Kissinger also provides a status report on his recent press conference, noting that his briefings on foreign aid were well-received. Furthermore, both men express confidence that political opposition, specifically from George McGovern, will remain ineffective as they anticipate minimal resistance to their foreign policy agenda.","topics":["International Conference","Foreign Aid","US-PRC Relations","George McGovern","Diplomacy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T06:38:56.971Z"},"topicSlugs":["international-conference","foreign-aid","us-prc-relations","george-mcgovern","diplomacy"],"audioDurationSec":131,"audioFiles":[{"file":"043-165.mp3","bytes":3143479,"durationSec":130.83,"bitrate":192222,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:30.403Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:43.864Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/043-165.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/043-165","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/43/conversation-043-165","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}